289: Working with Couples Who Get Escalated with Shane Birkel

Welcome back to The Couples Therapist Couch! This podcast is about the practice of Couples Therapy. Each week, Shane Birkel interviews an expert in the field of Couples Therapy to explore all about the world of relationships and how to be an amazing therapist.

In this solo episode, Shane talks working with couples who get escalated. Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and your other favorite podcast spots, and watch it on YouTube – follow and leave a 5-star review.

• Episode Summary & Player
• Show Notes
• The Couples Therapist Couch Summary
• Transcript

The Couples Therapist Couch 288: Relationship Repair with Shane Birkel

This episode is brought to you by Alma. Visit https://helloalma.com/dg/?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=paid&utm_campaign=privatepractice to learn more

Sign up for the June 2026 Cohort of Shane’s Certified Couples Intensive Training (CIT): https://cit.shanebirkel.com/

Get the Couples Therapy 101 course: https://www.couplestherapistcouch.com/

Join the Couples Therapist Inner Circle: https://www.couplestherapistcouch.com/inner-circle-new 

In this solo episode, Shane talks working with couples who get escalated. Hear some common questions people are wondering about in couples therapy today, how to work with a partner who doesn’t want to be in couples therapy, what to do if one partner is more invested than the other, what to do if things get escalated during an intensive or any type of couples therapy session, and how to market intensives to both your existing & new clients. Here's a small sample of what you'll hear in this episode:

• Normalizing escalation as information
• The 1% question: what does success look like this week, not six months from now
• Naming the strengths of the partner who hasn't done therapy and protecting the safety of the room
• How do you handle it when one partner seems much further along than the other?
• Creating safety first: nervous system activation, slowing down voice and pace, modeling regulation

Show Notes

• 288: Relationship Repair with Shane Birkel
• This episode is brought to you by Alma. Visit https://helloalma.com/dg/?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=paid&utm_campaign=privatepractice to learn more
• [0:27] Shane answers questions from his recent webinar
• [1:52] Question 1: How do you work with a partner who seems resistant to being there?
• [2:18] Reframing resistance: if someone seems unwilling, the therapist hasn't yet helped them see the value
• [3:11] Validating the reluctant partner by acknowledging bad past experiences with therapy and fear of being blamed
• [4:10] Reframing therapy itself: the goal is connection, not sessions. 
• [5:13] When one partner wants to keep going and the other doesn't 
• [6:12] Question 2: How do you handle it when one partner seems much further along than the other?
• [6:40] Two versions of this dynamic: one partner has done therapy, the other hasn't; or one has read all the books
• [7:38] The risk of framing it as one person being more advanced and how that becomes another form of blame
• [8:35] Naming the strengths of the partner who hasn't done therapy and protecting the safety of the room
• [9:38] When the more "developed" partner uses it as pressure and how that feeds the other person's sense of inadequacy
• [10:05] Getting specific about what they actually want, and helping them have patience for where their partner is right now
• [11:30] The 1% question: what does success look like this week, not six months from now
• [12:29] This episode is brought to you by Alma. Visit https://helloalma.com/dg/?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=paid&utm_campaign=privatepractice to learn more
• [13:41] Question 3: What do you do when things get really escalated in a session or intensive?
• [14:10] Normalizing escalation as information by pausing to get curious rather than pushing through
• [14:34] Bringing people outside the cycle by asking what's happening rather than staying inside it
• [15:01] Creating safety first: nervous system activation, slowing down voice and pace, modeling regulation
• [15:30] The Gottman heart rate monitor approach and why regulation has to come before the conversation can continue
• [16:00] Getting permission upfront to pause or interrupt and why that changes everything when escalation happens
• [16:45] Using the four Cs as a guide during escalation: consciousness, curiosity, compassion, connection
• [17:40] Escalation as a doorway, connecting the old wound being activated to something from before
• [18:16] Question 4: How do you market intensives to existing clients and to new people reaching out?
• [19:14] With existing clients: reading the room and simply asking if they'd want a longer block of time
• [20:41] With new clients: framing the intensive as the standard starting point, not an upsell
• [21:36] What people are really looking for isn't a format, it's confidence that you can help them reach their goals
• [22:33] If you have questions about the intensive training in Denver, Shane is offering 30 minutes calls to anyone interested.
• Join the first cohort of the Couples Intensive Therapy Training, June 23–27 in Denver
• This episode is brought to you by Alma. Visit https://helloalma.com/dg/?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=paid&utm_campaign=privatepractice to learn more

What is The Couples Therapist Couch?

This podcast is about the practice of Couples Therapy. Many of the episodes are interviews with leaders in the field of Relationships. The show is meant to help Therapists and Coaches learn how to help people to deepen their connection, but in the process it explores what is most needed for each of us to love, heal, and grow. Each week, Shane Birkel interviews an expert in the field of Couples Therapy to explore all about the world of relationships and how to be an amazing therapist.

Learn more about the Couples Therapy 101 course: https://www.couplestherapistcouch.com/

Find out more about the Couples Therapist Inner Circle: https://www.couplestherapistcouch.com/inner-circle-new

Transcript

Please note: this transcript is not 100% accurate.

00:00
If there's a lot of escalation happening, the first priority is creating safety.

00:10
to the Couples Therapist Couch, the podcast for couples therapists, marriage counselors, and relationship coaches to explore the practice of couples therapy. And now, your host, Shane BIrkel.

00:26
Hey everybody. Welcome back to the Couples Therapist's Couch. This is Shane Birkel, and this is the podcast that's all about the practice of couples therapy. Thank you so much for tuning in. I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist, and the goal of this podcast is to help you learn how to more effectively work with couples and possibly even learn how to have a better relationship. The episode this week is brought to you by Alma. They make it easy to get credentialed with major insurance plans at enhanced reimbursement rates.

00:55
Alma handles all of the paperwork and guarantees payment within two weeks. Visit HelloAlma.com or click on the link in the show notes to learn more. If you've been listening to the podcast the last few weeks, you've heard me talk about the four Cs and the big training that's coming up in June about doing couples therapy intensives. And I'm really excited about that. I did a webinar a little over a week ago.

01:23
And I've had a lot of conversations with people, a lot of questions from people, and I want to go over some of those questions. And a lot of them apply. You know, a lot of them are about the clinical side of things and apply, you know, whether you're doing an intensive or not. So I hope they'll be relevant for everybody. And I'm just going to dive in with those. If you're interested in the train, the big training coming up in June, I will leave the link in the show notes. But uh let's go. Let's get going with the questions. The first question is.

01:52
How do you work with a partner who is really resistant or doesn't want to be there? And I don't even like using that terminology resistant. I think that if your perception is that someone is resistant, it's just that they don't understand. Like we haven't done our job as a therapist to help them understand why this is going to be helpful and valuable to them. And so that's

02:18
a big part of what needs to happen at that point. What are we going to do that helps them towards something better in their life? And I think it's really important for us to find out what they really want. So if I'm perceiving that, I want to get really curious with that person about why are they here?

02:45
If we don't do a good job in that first session with someone who doesn't, you know, a lot of people have bad perceptions of therapy for good reason. Either they had a bad experience in therapy before, or, you know, they feel like it's going to be another opportunity to be blamed or teamed up on.

03:11
And we have to be careful about that. We have to be really considerate of validating their experience, validating that they don't want to be there. You know, saying it sense that you don't want to be in therapy. I really appreciate that you're here anyway. That means a lot, you know, that you don't really want to do this therapy thing and you're still taking the time because you care so much about this relationship or whatever, you know, whatever you find out that they want.

03:41
you're taking the time because you want to work towards your goals. And it's usually because they care about the other person in their relationship. So we want to help people to, we want to connect with what really motivates them. They're probably there because they want to save their relationship and their partner has been telling them, this is what we need to do.

04:10
You know, I also tell people sometimes like I'll say like the point is not therapy. My goal is that you don't have to come to therapy anymore. If you can really make your partner feel heard and seen and understood, that's really the goal. If they felt like you were deeply connecting with what they were talking about as they're struggling or trying to share with you what they're they're heard about or what they're

04:40
the issues in their relationship that they're trying to talk about.

04:44
That's the goal. Therapy is just a way of helping you see where you're getting stuck, figure out where you're getting stuck and how to get through it in a different way. So I'll tell people, listen, I could give you other recommendations. There's a lot of things. Therapy isn't necessarily the answer, but I think it could be really helpful toward working towards your goals. I'll tell, sometimes I'll have one partner who says,

05:13
We got to make another appointment. We got to keep going to therapy. This is so important to me." And the other person will say, well, I don't really want to make another appointment. Or they'll tell me in the session that they will. But then they'll leave and I'll get an email like, soon as we left, they said they never want to go back again or something like that. And again, I try to encourage the person who wants to keep going to therapy to define what they want. And

05:42
What would make it so that they felt like they didn't need to go to therapy anymore? Because the therapy isn't the end goal. The end goal is what they think they're going to get from the therapy. So we have to help people communicate about it in this way and then help them see that what we're doing in the therapy is going to help them achieve that and move toward the goals that they want to achieve. Question two. How do you handle it when one partner is much further along than the other?

06:12
Again, this is a question that came from somebody. I wouldn't use that wording as though, you know, everybody as a human being is exactly who they are and where they need to be in their life. So when we say one partner is much further along, there are a couple of different ways that that plays out. One is, you know, you have people sometimes who have gone to a lot of their own individual therapy and the other partner

06:40
is not as conscious about those things that are underneath the surface. Or sometimes you have one partner who has listened to a bunch of podcasts or read a bunch of books or is a therapist himself or something and feels like, I'm, you know, I'm further along because I have all of this background, right? And we really have to honor the background of the other partner.

07:09
and make sure we're not looking at it like the scales are tipped. Now, we're biased as therapists because we think therapy leads to personal growth and healing and we've seen how helpful it can be for people. So that's great when one person has experienced that and that they have more of the language that we're using about emotions and they have more ability.

07:38
to connect with their own emotional experience and inner experience. But a lot of times, we don't want to set it up where it becomes a reason to blame the other person or to feel like one person is better than the other or further along than the other. want to set it up, again, we want to use language that's more specific as far as

08:07
If someone says, I just wish my partner would read these books or I just wish my partner would go to their own individual therapy. I wish they we have to get more specific about, what do you really want from that? What specifically would you be feeling in this relationship if that were to happen? And a lot of it comes back to the consciousness and curiosity that we've talked that I've been talking about a lot lately.

08:35
And I think we have to really.

08:38
give voice to the strengths of the partner who hasn't gone to therapy, so to speak, or who hasn't done, who hasn't uh read all the books. And we really have to create safety where this isn't going to be a place where we're judging one person as better than the other or blaming one person. If it's handled poorly, it could really create this kind of pressure that just adds to the feeling that they don't want to be there.

09:09
And so we also, think part of it is talking to, especially I've had people who are pretty insensitive, I guess I would say, where they're the one who's gone to a lot of therapy or read all the books and everything. And they're sort of like, well, I need my partner to do the same thing. And this is what I need for the relationship to be good. And there's this feeling of like pressure and

09:38
It also ends up feeling like no matter how much the other person tries, they're still not enough. Right? So that goes to their sense of worthiness or feeling like they're enough for their partner. So we want to be really careful about that. And we want to try to help the person who's asking for that. Again, we can validate them too. We can say, it makes sense that you want them to read the books and go to therapy and do these things.

10:05
you know, first of all, what would that accomplish for you? Let's get really specific about what you really want. And second of all, when we start to develop goals with the couple, which is something you should do with all the couples you work with, and we start to develop those goals, talking to them like their work is about having patience for the process. Like your partner can get there, but not tomorrow and probably not by next week. And so

10:35
We have to be, part of it is your patience around this is who they are. This is their authentic self. This is their authentic perspective. And there's a reason why they don't like therapy and there's a reason why they don't want to read certain books or whatever. And that's fine. But can we frame the work in a way that they connect with? And I guess this goes back to the first question too. What is the meaning for

11:01
for that person, what's going to get them to continue showing up? What are the goals that they're working toward? And how are we as a therapist in the therapy process helping them feel like they're moving toward that? And then working a lot with the other partner to be patient and to say, is there enough good in this relationship that you're willing to be patient with what you're not getting right now? Does it mean it always has to be this way, but it might take some time?

11:30
to work through this process in order to get to that point where you're getting more of what you want. You know, a lot of people struggle with, they have a vision of here's what I think my perfect relationship looks like, and now I'm living my day-to-day life or week-to-week, and I'm feeling bad all the time because we're not there yet. And I try to get people to be more mindful and present and conscious and say, what does success look like this week?

11:59
This is a good question to end with in a therapy session. What does success look like this week? Not what you're shooting for in six months from now, but what would be, you know, 1 % better this week where you both feel really good about the work that's happening and you're both have achievable, you know, like smarkles specific, measurable, attainable this week.

12:29
to make things 1 % better. And that way people can start feeling good, more warm and fuzzy feelings toward their partner where they're thinking, well, they're not there yet, but I appreciate all of the effort that they're putting in. Building a private practice can be challenging. Filing all of the right paperwork is time consuming and tedious. And even after you're done, it can take months to get credentialed and start seeing clients.

12:57
That's why Alma makes it easy and financially rewarding to accept insurance. When you join Alma, you can get credentialed within 45 days and access enhanced reimbursement rates with major payers. They also handle all of the paperwork from eligibility checks to claim submissions and guarantee payment within two weeks of each appointment. Plus, when you join Alma, you'll get access to time-saving tools for intakes, scheduling, treatment plans, progress notes, and more in their included platform.

13:27
Alma helps you spend less time on administrative work and more time offering great care to your clients. Visit helloalma.com or click the link in the show notes to learn more. Question three.

13:41
What do do if things get really escalated during an intensive or in any session for that matter? I mean, first, I think ah it's good to normalize it. It's just information that you're taking in as a therapist, and it can often tell you something really important about where their stuck points are. You know, so you can, I've even told people in therapy, you know, hold on, we're going to pause this right here, but I appreciate that.

14:10
this is happening right now. You know, and I appreciate you being vulnerable enough to let me witness. Is this what it feels like when this happens at home? And again, I'm really, being sensitive about it and normalizing it and I'm becoming curious about it. It's sort of asking questions to help them step outside of it, step outside of being wrapped up in it.

14:34
and really take a look from the outside looking in, what are we doing, what's happening? Is this part of the pattern and the cycle that we're getting into all the time? And I think there, you know, we want to create safety and I start talking to people about safety a lot in these moments where if there's a lot of escalation happening, the first priority is creating safety.

15:01
and feeling grounded and talking about how their nervous systems are getting activated. Talking about, you I know the Gottman Institute used to talk about using heart rate monitors. Maybe they still don't. I'm sure they probably still do. But they had people put heart rate monitors on their fingers. And when it got to a certain high level, like above a certain level, they would say that, you know, everything has to pause in the room.

15:30
for us to get regulated again before we can come back to the conversation. So you can slow everything down, slow your voice down, slow your pace, slow your own breathing. You know, we're trying to model as a human being, as a therapist, what could be happening in the room. And, you know, sometimes you can even take a break and have people walk around for 10 minutes. You know, I don't think it's helpful to push through.

16:00
so to speak, think we have to really, but you know, I also try to get permission from people, you know, when we're working together, I might say something toward the beginning, like, hey, if it starts getting kind of heated or I notice the conversation isn't feeling very helpful anymore, is it okay if I stop either one of you? Is it okay if I pause things and we're just gonna try to notice the patterns that are happening?

16:28
So I get permission, because sometimes I've had situations where I didn't do that and then I tried to slow things down and people got frustrated because I wasn't letting them finish what they were trying to say. But like when you ask for that permission upfront, I think it helps a lot.

16:45
ah We can talk about the commitment to do no harm, talk about what that looks like for each of them. We're really using the four C's as a guide as far as moving them into consciousness, curiosity, compassion, and connection. When people start getting escalated, they're not probably still in their conscious self. So we have to bring them back to what's really happening.

17:16
And again, become curious. There's so much to learn, you know, and start asking questions like, hold on, hold on, what are you feeling right now? What's coming up? What just got activated for you? And you have to navigate that one person at a time because each of them are experiencing different things. So you have to take that as an individual conversation.

17:40
You know, and I think one final thought about this is that there's a shame response happening. There's an old wound getting activated and we have to be very sensitive and gentle around those old wounds, right? We sometimes uh it's a doorway into insight about that person. Again, if we can stay in curiosity and keep the safety in the room, breathe and

18:09
try to make a connection to, you know, is this connected to something that you've been through before?

18:16
And question four. How do I market intensives? There's a follow up. One is to existing clients and. One is to new people reaching out for therapy. So one of the I mean, there's lot I can say about this and again we're going to be going. We're going to be doing some of this business stuff in the the CIT training in June. I'll put a link in the show notes.

18:44
But I'll just give you a few thoughts for the podcast episode here today. mean, a lot of times when you're working with existing clients, let's talk about that first. You notice you meet with them every, you know, for 15 minutes every week, they feel like there's not enough time. You feel like there's not enough time. Everybody wants, everybody wants more time, but I think as a therapist, we've become hesitant because we're like, well, this is the structure that they're used to.

19:14
Maybe they think I'm trying to sell them something if I suggest more time or something like that. I think when I've done that and it's really been trying to read the room of like it feels like they would. This would be really helpful and when I've mentioned it. So sometimes I'll say something like you know sometimes I do a little bit longer sessions with people and it feels like it would be really helpful to have a little bit more time. Would you be interested in doing a double session next time?

19:43
or even maybe three hours so that we have a longer block of time to really get into some of these issues. And just again, that could be right at the end of a 50 minute session where everyone's feeling that energy and they might, know, a lot of people I've said that to have been super grateful, like, oh, that's an option. We can do that. That's that's possible. That would be so great. I'd much rather do that. And so you're really speaking truth to.

20:13
I think what everybody wants now if you say that and then they say. No, I think we just want to stick with 50 minute sessions then fine like that's you know, then you just do that. But I don't think it hurts to ask the question and to begin to suggest longer periods of time and it doesn't have to be like a full day or something like that. It could just be a couple more hours. Now with new people reaching out for therapy, I think there's an assumption that.

20:41
Therapy is something that happens once a week for an hour or 50 minutes. And we have to begin to, you if individuals are reaching out to me for therapy, I might just say, sure, I'd be happy to set something up with you. If couples are reaching out, my standard is usually to respond by saying something like, thank you so much for reaching out. I'd love to work with you.

21:09
I usually start with an intensive with the couples I work with, which really gives us time to get into the issues and helps you make a lot more progress in a shorter period of time. You know, would you like to set up a 15 minute phone call to talk more about what that could look like? So. Again, this isn't like a sales pitch or something. This is like.

21:36
you're framing it as an oppor- this is an opportunity for them to really accomplish what they want to accomplish. And that's what people want. They're not looking for 50 minutes a week or an intensive or, you know, they don't care how it's set up. They want to know, are you going to help me accomplish the goals I'm trying to accomplish? And if you know as a therapist from your own experience that intensives are going to help people get there more quickly and

22:05
you can try to communicate that to them. They're going to be really grateful that here's something that's actually going to help us achieve what we're trying to do. Now, when you begin to figure those things out, you can also put them on your website and use that as a way of communicating how helpful the intensives can be, communicate the things people can accomplish and all of that type of stuff.

22:33
I think that's all I'll say for now. You're really, again, focusing on helping people accomplish what they want to accomplish rather than making it about the specific amount of time.

22:52
So I hope it was helpful to hear me answer these questions. Like I said, I'm calls right now, 30 minute calls with anybody who wants to talk about intensives. I'm really trying to finish filling up the training that I have coming up in June. If you're interested in that, definitely jump on a call with me. Thanks everybody. The episode this week is brought to you by Alma. They make it easy to get credentialed with major insurance plans at enhanced reimbursement rates.

23:22
Alma handles all of the paperwork and guarantees payment within two weeks. Visit helloalma.com or click on the link in the show notes to learn more. And thank you again, everybody. This is Shane Burkle and this is the Couples Therapist Couch podcast. It's all about the practice of couples therapy. I hope you have a great week and we'll see you next time. Bye everybody.