284: Connection: The 4Cs in Relationships with Shane Birkel

Welcome back to The Couples Therapist Couch! This podcast is about the practice of Couples Therapy. Each week, Shane Birkel interviews an expert in the field of Couples Therapy to explore all about the world of relationships and how to be an amazing therapist.

In this solo episode, Shane dives into Connection as part of his mini-series, The 4 Cs in Relationships. Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and your other favorite podcast spots, and watch it on YouTube – follow and leave a 5-star review.

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The Couples Therapist Couch 284: Connection: The 4 Cs in Relationships with Shane Birkel

This episode is brought to you by Alma. Visit https://helloalma.com/dg/?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=paid&utm_campaign=privatepractice to learn more

Get the Couples Therapy 101 course: https://www.couplestherapistcouch.com/

Join the Couples Therapist Inner Circle: https://www.couplestherapistcouch.com/inner-circle-new 

In this solo episode, Shane dives into Connection as part of his mini-series, The 4 Cs in Relationships. Hear how containing boundaries & protective boundaries work in relationships, the difference between codependence & healthy connection, why so many couples struggle to get back to the honeymoon phase, how to help your clients develop true intimacy & connection, and your job as it relates to your partner. Here's a small sample of what you'll hear in this episode:

• Codependence vs. healthy connection and the confusion between them
• How the honeymoon phase creates dangerous boundary compromises
• The five aspects of self and how each can be violated
• Why real intimacy requires both a solid sense of self and safety in the relationship
• The harmony-rupture-repair cycle and how to help couples build it

Show Notes

• 284: Connection: The 4 Cs in Relationships with Shane Birkel
• This episode is brought to you by Alma. Visit https://helloalma.com/dg/?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=paid&utm_campaign=privatepractice to learn more

• [0:30] Introducing the final episode of the Four Cs series and the topic of connection

• [2:27] Why codependence and healthy connection are so easily confused

• [2:56] The honeymoon phase: oxytocin, dopamine, and why early love feels effortless

• [3:54] Why fading passion isn't a broken relationship - it's the start of a real one

• [4:54] How deep unworthiness fuels early romantic intensity and the drug addiction parallel

• [6:21] Shane's personal example: his sense of worth rising and falling with his marriage

• [6:51] People-pleasing and blame as the two default responses to relational conflict

• [7:52] Codependence defined: when your sense of worth depends on your partner's behavior

• [8:20] Reframing disconnection as an opportunity for internal work

• [9:56] The controlling response: managing relational anxiety through your partner's behavior

• [10:30] Moving from illusion to truth as the core work of healthy relationships

• [11:02] The fear that authenticity will end the relationship - and why the risk is worth it

• [11:58] Intimacy as the experience of being known and why hiding forecloses it

• [12:28] Differences, friction, and unmet needs after the honeymoon as normal and expected

• [13:31] Boundaries as the most practical tool for moving from illusion to real connection

• [14:01] The commitment to no harm as the foundation beneath all healthy boundaries

• [14:55] Why feeling justified in causing emotional hurt is where things go wrong

• [15:24] How to communicate a boundary by owning your experience rather than accusing

• [16:23] The "never on time" example: moving from criticism to personal expression

• [17:20] Why connection requires safety and how curiosity about your partner creates it

• [18:48] This episode is brought to you by Alma. Visit https://helloalma.com/dg/?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=paid&utm_campaign=privatepractice to learn more

• [19:47] Containing boundaries vs. protective boundaries: the two distinct types explained

• [22:40] Introducing the five aspects of self and what boundaries are actually protecting

• [23:09] The five aspects: physical, psychological, emotional, sexual, and spiritual self

• [24:36] The spiritual self: a moral orientation - the right not to harm or control another

• [25:35] Your job is to show up with integrity and let go of the rest

• [27:33] The five aspects as areas we choose to open when we feel safe enough to do so

• [28:33] How family of origin shapes the beliefs we carry into adult relationships

• [29:01] Two ways the parent-child distance goes wrong: neglect and enmeshment

• [30:54] Beliefs formed in childhood don't stay there - they follow us into every relationship

• [31:27] How emotional neglect can produce opposite coping strategies in adult relationships

• [32:54] Why family of origin work matters and how it differs from blaming parents

• [34:21] Real connection requires a solid sense of self and a shared no-harm foundation

• [35:34] The ability to stand in conflict without trying to control or fix it

• [36:03] Connection is not a destination - introducing the harmony-rupture-repair cycle

• [36:32] What separates healthy relationships from distressed ones: the capacity to repair

• [37:02] What repair sounds like: choosing your partner again while naming what hurt

• [38:01] Using the rupture-repair cycle in couples therapy as a normalizing frame

• [38:31] Wrapping up the Four Cs and a free one-page resource available in the show notes

• This episode is brought to you by Alma. Visit https://helloalma.com/dg/?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=paid&utm_campaign=privatepractice to learn more

What is The Couples Therapist Couch?

This podcast is about the practice of Couples Therapy. Many of the episodes are interviews with leaders in the field of Relationships. The show is meant to help Therapists and Coaches learn how to help people to deepen their connection, but in the process it explores what is most needed for each of us to love, heal, and grow. Each week, Shane Birkel interviews an expert in the field of Couples Therapy to explore all about the world of relationships and how to be an amazing therapist.

Learn more about the Couples Therapy 101 course: https://www.couplestherapistcouch.com/

Find out more about the Couples Therapist Inner Circle: https://www.couplestherapistcouch.com/inner-circle-new

Transcript

Please note: this transcript is not 100% accurate.

00:00
You know, your job is not to fix or to control your partner. Your job is showing up with integrity and then letting go of the rest.

00:14
to the Couples Therapist Couch, the podcast for couples therapists, marriage counselors, and relationship coaches to explore the practice of couples therapy. And now, your host, Shane Birkel.

00:30
Hey everybody. Welcome back to the Couples Therapist's Couch. This is Shane Birkel, and this is the podcast that's all about the practice of couples therapy. Thank you so much for tuning in. I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist, and the goal of this podcast is to help you learn how to more effectively work with couples and possibly even learn how to have a better relationship. The episode this week is brought to you by Alma. They make it easy to get credentialed with major insurance plans at enhanced reimbursement rates.

00:59
Alma handles all of the paperwork and guarantees payment within two weeks. Visit HelloAlma.com or click on the link in the show notes to learn more. Hey everyone, welcome back to the Couples Therapist Couch. This is Shane Birkel and this is the podcast that's all about the practice of couples therapy. Thank you so much for tuning in. I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist and I hope this podcast is helpful for those of you who work with couples, but also just for all of us who are in relationships.

01:28
that it can really help improve the way that you show up in your relationship. I've been doing a series lately on the Four Cs, the Four Cs framework for having a healthy relationship. And just to remind you to go through, we've been talking about consciousness, curiosity, compassion, and connection. And today's episode is on connection. If you missed any of the previous episodes, you might want to go back.

01:57
Cause I think they kind of build on each other. But, uh, in the last episode, I was talking all about compassion, uh, compassion for yourself and compassion for your partner. And I said at the end that I wanted to talk about boundaries. Cause I think boundaries are really such an important part of how I see connection boundaries are obviously has been, um, popular topic, I think. Uh, and there's some.

02:27
And I think for good reason, because I do think it's essential to having a good connection with another human being. So I want to start with something that I think gets in the way of real connection for a lot of people, which is a confusion between co-dependence and healthy connection. And I think a lot of people feel like they have a healthy connection, but it's really more of a codependent energy.

02:56
And, uh, if you imagine the beginning of, a relationship for, for many people, it doesn't always happen and it's not necessary, but a lot of relationships begin with a period of time that just feels really passionate and connected. There are a lot of neurotransmitters flowing like oxytocin and dopamine and everything just feels exciting and easy. That's a big part of it. feels kind of easy. And there's this.

03:26
powerful sense of closeness with the other person. And some people describe this as a honeymoon phase in a relationship. And I think a lot of people have this illusion that, you know, let's say they've been together 10 years where they're like, well, well, we don't have a good relationship anymore because it doesn't feel like the first six months did. And there's this sort of like feeling that people are constantly trying to chase.

03:54
getting back to this feeling of, you know, bliss and connection with the other person. You know, I just think that isn't the whole story. think there's a lot more to understand about going, what's going on with that. And I think that when you've been, the longer you've been with someone and you don't feel that passion anymore, I think it's a huge opportunity. And I think that's the beginning of the possibility for a real

04:24
mature, authentic relationship with someone else. Part of what's fueling that idea and that feeling is a cultural narrative that I think a lot of us have taken on from movies and from the way relationships get talked about. the idea that when you meet the right person, everything is going to fall into place. You're going to want the same things at the same time. There won't be conflict. There won't be

04:54
misalignment, you know, you like the idea of a soulmate. You finally found your soulmate and that's just how it works. But the truth of what's really happening underneath that feeling, I think is something that's much more complicated. And a lot of people walk into relationships carrying a deep sense of unworthiness, and they may not even be conscious of it. um A feeling that they

05:23
maybe they're not deserving of love. And when it feels like another person loves them, you know, there's something shifts all of a sudden. They feel like I'm enough, not because they've done any internal work to get there, but because someone else's love is filling the gap. And, and, know, to be honest, I think there have been comparisons made to the way in which drugs work in a similar way. When people get addicted to drugs, it's because

05:52
There's this feeling of warmth, feeling of connection, feeling like things are okay for the period of time that you're using them. You know, there's the withdrawal phase, which feels very similar sometimes if you're ending a relationship and if you're ending, you know, using drugs. So that being said, I do think there's a healthy way of having this connection. Uh, but I think you have, just, we just have, I'll spend some time talking about the difference and how to really be.

06:21
conscious of what's happening. And, um, you know, I'll be honest, I recognize this in myself. I, and I've been with my wife for over 20 years and I create this, I still create this narrative where if things are going well between us, I feel good about myself and I feel good about the world. And I feel like, all right, I'm enough. Things are okay. And then when we're in conflict, you know, it feels really uncomfortable.

06:51
My, have this instinct to either fix it as quickly as possible, you know, maybe become a people pleaser, make sure everybody else is happy or, or, uh, you know, find a way to make it her fault to, go into blame and criticism and, uh, judgment about, you know, she's doing it wrong. Both of these responses are really about me trying to get back.

07:20
to feeling okay about myself. Not about genuine connection with her, right? I'm not using consciousness, I'm not using curiosity, I'm not using compassion at that point. It's more about survival. It's more about a sense of protection of my own self image, of my own ego, you might say. And that's really a codependent energy. My sense of worth is dependent on the state of the relationship.

07:52
And I make up the story in my head. As long as my partner is doing the right things. And as long as we feel that sense of connection, then I'm okay. And that's very different than a healthy connection. And it's me like being dependent on things on the outside in order to feel okay in the world. And I think that's where there's a huge opportunity for each of us to do the work.

08:20
And to realize like, even if we're experiencing things that are uncomfortable, disconnection, feeling of disconnection in the relationship, that that's a huge opportunity. I would reframe that to say that's a huge opportunity. This is an opportunity for me to look inside myself, not to continue focusing on external things, but to look inside myself and to explore.

08:50
and become conscious of like, what are the beliefs that are coming into this that are make me feel stuck?

08:59
So during the honeymoon phase when everything feels good and the neurotransmitters are flowing, there's a dangerous thing that can happen, which is that people start compromising their own boundaries or never establishing them in the first place, right? Cause they just want to keep this feeling alive. So instead of being honest about what they want, what they need or what they don't want,

09:26
they perform a version of themselves that they think the other person wants to be with, right? And a lot of times people are making a lot of assumptions about this. And sometimes it works for a while, right? I'm just going to have the same interests as the other person. I'm going to go along with whatever they want to do. I'm going to make sure they're happy. And then I can feel like the sense of connection and maybe the other person's doing the same thing.

09:56
And on the other end of the spectrum, some people respond to this anxiety by going the opposite direction and becoming controlling, right? If I can manage my partner's behavior, if I can get them to do what I want and be who I need them to be, then I can recreate what I imagine a healthy relationship looks like. And it's just another version of the same problem.

10:23
It's about controlling the external reality rather than doing the internal work.

10:30
And what both of these have in common is that they're staying in the illusion rather than living in the truth. And that's a big part of how I would describe what's happening when we're working toward a healthy relationship is we're moving into the truth, no matter how uncomfortable it is. Because if you're not being conscious, uh, and compassionate of the truth of the reality, then you're going to keep feeling stuck.

11:02
And, um, part of that truth is the ability to be conscious of what you authentically want and who you are, and then to be able to communicate, uh, what you want and who you are. And there's a, there's a fear that people have that if I, if I do that, if the other person discovers who I actually am, then the relationship might not survive that honesty.

11:30
Right? If I, I try to tell the other person, you know, I don't really like this and this, and you know, I'm not in the mood for that today. And you know, and I'm just being authentic to my own personal experience. Then, you know, there's a fear that over time, the other person's going to be like, ah, I don't think this is a good fit for me. And maybe that's true. That's real. That's a real risk. I think it's important for people to, realize that because

11:58
being authentic and truthful might lead to the end of the relationship. But the flip side of that is that it's the only thing that can lead to a deeper, more authentic, real, mature relationship. It's the only way to develop true intimacy and connection with another person. You can't be truly known if you're hiding who you are.

12:28
And intimacy is the experience of being known. That's what the real connection is about. So after the honeymoon phase ends, most people start to encounter some of the more challenging dynamics of their relationship, the differences, the friction, the moments where your partner isn't who you need them to be at that moment. Now, and this is not a sign that there's anything wrong at all. This is just a normal part of the relationship.

12:57
process. And again, I would encourage people to reframe it not as a problem, but as an opportunity. This is like the moment where the real work and the real opportunity begins. to you know, there's a huge amount of benefit that can happen if you move into curiosity at that point, you know, to become curious of what's going on inside of me when my partner's doing this.

13:24
And what's going on for my partner when I'm showing up in this way?

13:31
And this brings me to the idea of boundaries. And this is one of the most concrete and practical tools we have for helping couples move from the illusion to a genuine connection. And I want to say before I get into boundaries or maybe as a foundational principle of boundaries is a commitment that I think needs to exist in any healthy relationship.

14:01
And I call it the commitment to no harm. It's the decision to be fully respectful of yourself and fully respectful of everyone around you. And this goes back to the last episode when I was talking about self-esteem and valuing yourself, valuing others, uh, re believing that everyone is equally valuable. And, um, a lot of us understand this from the standpoint of

14:30
Physical boundaries like you know, we would never hit somebody or do something physically harmful to another human being and we know that it's not okay for someone to do something physically harmful to us but there's also You know big one for couples is is emotionally the commitment to Doing no harm emotionally to another person and when it comes to emotional stuff sometimes

14:55
It is going to happen in a relationship where, you know, I feel emotionally hurt by my partner. My partner is going to feel emotionally hurt by me. But the important thing is that we don't feel justified in that. Right? Like the important thing is that I have the ability to take the authentic feedback from my partner. If they're telling me they feel hurt. And sometimes it's not even about a right or wrong thing. Right? Like one person might've grown up.

15:24
in a family that had a lot more conflict and raised voices and they feel comfortable with that. And I'm not going to judge that as wrong, but if they're raising, you know, if I'm talking to my partner and the voice sounds too much for me, that's how I'm going to communicate it. Like my boundary is, Hey honey, this feels like this too much conflict for me. If as you're raising your voice, it's feeling hard for me to stay in the conversation.

15:54
That's my reality. That's what's going on for me. You know, and you could take a break at that point. You could discuss what the plan looks like, but it's, being considerate of each other in that way. I'm not going to accuse my partner of being emotionally abusive. I don't think that kind of language is off is helpful most of the time, unless we're really trying to label something. But it's more for me to say this isn't working for me, right? Or if I'm, if I'm asking my partner,

16:23
You know, the, you know, let's say somebody has, you know, a really strong value about being on time places. This is one that comes up for couples a lot. It's easy to go into that criticism and blame, Oh, you're never on time. Right. But instead it's, it's important for me to express when you're not on time. That's really hard for me. That's something about me. Right. And even the language is encouraging me to own it and look within myself.

16:54
rather than blame my partner. So, you know, some people genuinely believe that if their partner makes them angry, they have every right to punish them and to make them feel bad and to say things that are cutting and cruel. And what I would say is that's, that's not true. You don't have the right to do something that's harmful to another human being emotionally or psychologically, obviously physically anything else.

17:20
So there's never a need to be disrespectful. When we're talking about boundaries, you can be honest and firm, but still be respectful. And this matters because connection requires safety. Connection requires each partner to feel safe about how that conversation is happening. And the more I'm willing to be curious and compassionate of my partner's experience,

17:49
the more they're going to feel that safety. It's not about figuring out who's right or who's wrong. It's about understanding why does this feel bad for my partner? Why does this feel hurtful to my partner and getting curious about that reality and feeling empowered to express in a respectful way? Here's what doesn't feel good for me. Here's what feels hurtful to me and saying it to my partner in a way that, um,

18:18
is respectful. And my boundary is not about changing my partner. This is important. My boundary is about saying, Hey, listen, if you keep speaking to me in this tone, I'm perceiving that it's a harsh tone. That's my reality. And if you keep speaking to me in this way, I'm going to go take a walk, or I'm going to go in the other room. So my boundary is something I am completely empowered to follow through on.

18:48
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19:15
and guarantee payment within two weeks of each appointment. Plus when you join Alma, you'll get access to time-saving tools for intakes, scheduling, treatment plans, progress notes, and more in their included platform. Alma helps you spend less time on administrative work and more time offering great care to your clients. Visit helloalma.com or click the link in the show notes to learn more. And I want to make a distinction between two types of boundaries.

19:47
One is a containing boundary and one is a protective boundary. Right? So my containing boundary is my, the boundary between me and the world. Right? I have a responsibility to contain myself to a certain level and protect other people in the world from me. That's my containment.

20:13
Right? If I was just going around punching anybody who I wanted to, um, I would not be containing myself in an appropriate way. And people who are on the furthest end of the spectrum of having a hard time with containing themselves will probably end up in prison or in a mental hospital or something like that, because they don't have the ability to, uh, not be harmful to other human beings in the world.

20:44
And my, so my protective boundary is, you know, my ability to allow what comes into my space and to keep myself safe, right? My protective boundary is to protect me from the world. Right. So I don't have to endure other people being harmful to me. And, you know, we could do a whole episode on child abuse. And while I think this is so important, because when we're talking about children,

21:13
It's actually the parents responsibility to keep the child safe. So the very person who's supposed to love you and keep you safe is the one who's violating your boundaries and physically abusing you. That's why this developmental trauma can be so harmful. And it happens on an emotional level as well. But I do think that's maybe a different conversation. It's something I talk about a lot, but, uh, I'm not going to get into it at this moment, but I'm talking about adults. I'm talking about.

21:43
as adults, you have the responsibility to protect yourself. mean, obviously we have things set up in our society to help protect people like, you know, police officers and lawyers and the court system. And I'm talking, so let's bring it back to a relational level though, that I have a responsibility to protect myself. And, um, you know, if something doesn't feel okay, then I'm going to do something to set a boundary.

22:13
protect myself. And again, if it's with if it's with someone you love, you know, it might sound like I don't like how this conversation is going. This doesn't feel good to me. I'm going to take a walk and come back when we can talk differently. You know, so I haven't said anything disrespectful. I'm simply communicating what I need. So both of these are really important. And it's important to understand the difference between the two of them.

22:40
And that brings me to something that I think is really central to this whole conversation. This is another really big topic that I'll just kind of give you the overview of. Uh, if you have questions, you can reach out. But when we're talking about connection, we're really talking about the experience of being known by another person. And when we talk about someone violating your boundaries, we're talking about them violating yourself.

23:09
And what is yourself? Right? Each of us has our own sense of who we are. And I think they're one of the ways I've heard it described. And this comes from Pia Melody is like five different aspects of self. These are the ways I make sense of who I am. have my physical self. So number one is physical. Like it's my body, my physical experience, our relationship with physical touch and physical safety.

23:39
I know who I am because of my physical body. Then I have my psychological self, which is thinking how we think, how we make sense of the world, our beliefs about others, all the stuff that's going on in our head that helps us make sense of who we are. Um, there's my emotional self. A big part of who I am is because of all the emotions that are going on inside of me all the time. You know, our, our feeling life, our capacity to experience and express emotions and our emotional needs.

24:09
There's our sexual self, which is similar to physical, but it's, think it's an important subcategory. You know, it involves our sexual identity, our experience of sexuality, our sense of ourselves as a sexual being. And it's really important that you, you know, consent is really important with this one, that you have the right to,

24:36
protect yourself, have boundaries around what you feel okay with sexually or not. And then the fifth one is your spiritual self. And when I talk about the spiritual aspect of self, I'm not necessarily talking about religion, although I think religions try to capture this idea a lot. I'm talking about, really about morality, about how we orient ourselves toward other human beings.

25:04
You know, at the core of spiritual health, think it's about a very simple and very profound idea that we do not have the right to harm or control another person. And we have to let go of what we can't control. Like our partner as another human being is not ours to manage. They are a separate human being with their own reality, their own needs, their own path, which may or may not include us in the long term.

25:35
And the moment we start trying to control them, even with the best of intentions, even if it's because we love them, then we've moved away from connection and towards something else. So you know, your job is not to fix or to control your partner. Your job is showing up with integrity and then letting go of the rest. Your success is not dependent on what happens with your partner on some level.

26:06
Uh, we want to be really considerate of the other person. We want to be respectful. We want to be accountable if we do something hurtful, but on another level of consciousness, we have to consider the idea again. I want to say it again, cause I think it's so important. Your job is to show up with integrity and then let go of the rest. I want to connect this back to what I was saying earlier about the honeymoon phase.

26:37
Oh, and by the way, before I get to that, you know, if you think about these five different aspects, these are the ways that people are abused. These are the ways in which people, uh, people's boundaries are crossed. can be, you your, your physical boundary could be crossed. Your psychological boundary, right? If there's psychological manipulation, uh, your emotional boundaries could be crossed.

27:03
Uh, your sexual boundaries could be crossed your spiritual boundaries. So I should probably do a whole other episode, sort of going into more detail and examples of what that looks like. But, um, I don't think, uh, I want to take the time to do that in this episode. Uh, so I want, I want to connect all this back to what I, what I was saying earlier about the honeymoon phase, the person who compromises their own boundaries to keep the peace.

27:33
or the person who becomes controlling to manage their own anxiety. Both of them are struggling with something spiritual. The last thing I want to say about these five aspects is that they're areas we can choose to share with someone we trust, whether it's physical closeness, emotional vulnerability, psychological intimacy, sexual connection, shared values, and a shared moral orientation toward each other or

28:03
You know, I think that goes back to the commitment to do no harm. These are things we open up when we're in a safe relationship with another person, right? Like I have the right to share those aspects of my reality with another human being if I feel safe enough to do so. And it's, what's going to create a deeper connection and create vulnerability. So another important aspect for the couples we're working with is that most people don't arrive in adult relationships with a clean, healthy,

28:33
relationship to all five of these aspects of self. We all go through stuff during our lives that impact, you know, the beliefs and the family of origin trauma that happens, I would say for everyone in one way or another is it is relational. What I mean by that, it has to do with the distance between the child and the parent or caregiver.

29:01
Again, thinking of all the five aspects of self, there are different ways those are affected as you're going through your childhood. And however that specifically happens for you is going to impact how you see relationships as an adult. So, and I want to just look at the two ways that the distance can go wrong. The first is, uh, neglect, right? The parent who isn't present.

29:28
emotionally, physically, psychologically, the child learns that their needs don't get met and their feelings don't matter. And they could learn that maybe they feel like they're on their own. And this is like, the neglect is about covert trauma. It's about what the child didn't get. They didn't receive enough support, uh psychologically or emotionally, or education about sexuality, the ability to open up about

29:58
what was going on for them. They didn't receive enough physical like the parent being physically present. They didn't get enough of this in their healthy development and appropriate nurturing. The other side is the overt, which is intrusion or enmeshment. I mean, the idea of physical abuse uh lives in this category where the parent doesn't allow the child to have their own separate reality.

30:27
the parent actually is the one violating the child's boundaries and make the child responsible for their parents' emotional state. And again, as children are experiencing this, they develop their sense of self uh based on what's happening, what they did or didn't get growing up in this family. Depending on the specifics of what each of us went through,

30:54
It's going to impact how we show up in relationships and the challenges we're facing and our own ability to feel safe about acknowledging our own authentic reality. Whatever we experience as children or don't experience, certain things in these five aspects of lead us to developing beliefs. And those beliefs don't stay in childhood.

31:21
They follow us into every relationship we have as an adult.

31:27
So, you know, an example is if a person grew up with emotional neglect and the parent didn't know how to support the child emotionally, then that child might develop feelings that they don't matter. And if they show up in a vulnerable way, nothing good will come of it. Right? So they stay shut down emotionally in their adult relationship. Now that could also cause the opposite thing to happen.

31:57
So same childhood where the parent is too far away, the child didn't get their emotional needs met. They could develop a different type of belief that someday I'll meet someone who will fulfill all my emotional needs. And they could be sort of starving for that emotional connection. And they could actually uh open up too much, um, where, where it feels more like that controlling energy or like, I need my partner to be

32:27
a lot of things for me that could go in two different directions. Same thing with the person who grew up with intrusion or enmeshment where the parent was too close. They didn't allow them to have their own separate self. Uh, you know, they're going to, they're going to struggle. They could struggle a lot with boundaries. They could struggle a lot with feeling like, like they don't want to be responsible for everybody else's emotions.

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You know, they could be fiercely protective of their separateness in a way that makes intimacy very difficult. There's all kinds of ways this could play out. But that this is why doing the family of origin work is so important and becoming curious of what happened to me growing up that's influencing how I'm showing up in this relationship or what I'm the things I'm struggling with. It's not to blame the parents, by the way. And I talked to people about this a lot, like

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Most of our parents were doing the very best that they could. And I actually think that a lot of doing this work, a lot of times will lead to a better relationship with your parents. And that, and that to me is really the goal, but it's about moving into honesty and clarity about what really happened. And it helps people move into compassion for themselves. Like, of course you're struggling in your relationship in these ways.

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because you went through this, this and this. So it makes sense that that's going on for you. And to begin to differentiate from the old stuff to what's actually happening in your present day relationship. The truth is what's happening in people's present day relationships is often much better than they actually think it is. And that can give people a lot of hope.

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So coming back to the theme of connection, you know, the real connection requires vulnerability. It requires the willingness to open up to the aspects of self.

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And to let another person into your reality, whether it be physically, psychologically, emotionally, sexually, or spiritually. And it doesn't have to include all of these things, but. It's only possible for you to do that. If you have a solid enough sense of yourself to know what you're sharing and to be able to set boundaries around it. And second, that you're

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in a relationship where the commitment to do no harm is the ground you're both standing on, where you trust that the other person is not going to use your vulnerability against you and you can create a sense of safety. And when these two things are present, there's something really amazing that can happen where people start feeling safe enough to be honest and show up as themselves and stop performing and start acting, start actually being known.

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And that's what the that's what true connection feels like. You know, I've had uh people on the podcast who have talked about the importance of conflict. And I think this is part of what they mean is like the ability to tell each other the truth, right? To have strong enough boundaries and to have uh strong enough self-esteem to be able to stand in the face of, you know, my partner being upset about something and being accepting of that.

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And letting go of trying to control that or fix that. And, uh, you know, one more thing before we close up this episode, cause I think it's really important for the couples we work with. Connection is not like a destination you arrive at and then, and then you're like, you accomplished it and now you're just going to live in bliss for the rest of your life. I think every relationship moves through a cycle. And I, and I think I learned this from Terry real that.

36:32
There's a period of harmony, know, a period of feeling connected and safe and good. And then something happens, right? There's a rupture, a fight, a misunderstanding, a moment where someone feels hurt or unseen and the connection breaks. So what separates healthy relationships from distressed ones is not the absence of that rupture. The rupture in itself is going to happen in every healthy relationship.

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What separates them is the ability to repair or the inability to repair, right? The ability to come back to each other after something has gone wrong and to reconnect and to be able to communicate, you know, that didn't feel good. I want us to be okay in our relationship. I'm choosing you again, but I, you know, I need some acknowledgement or validation of how that felt for me.

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Because if we think that our partner cares about understanding why it was hurtful, then we feel safer going forward because they're more likely to be conscious of it in the future. So the repair process is one of the most important things that you can help couples build. Because when people know that the rupture isn't the end, a lot of people have a fear, like when we experience rupture, maybe we'll never come back together.

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So I think that's an important thing to bring into couples therapy sessions is it's perfectly normal in a healthy relationship to have the rupture, but you have to have a good repair process in place and have enough trust in the repair to let yourself be vulnerable again. And so the connection can deepen every time you go through the cycle, harmony, rupture, repair, reconnection, you know, and then it starts again.

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That's a normal flow of, of relationships. And that's true even with parents and children too. I want to wrap things up. That's the four C's consciousness, curiosity, compassion, and connection. Obviously we're focusing on connection in this episode. And, um, what I hope comes through in all of this is that these aren't just concepts, but they're a way of being in relationship to yourself, to your partner and

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The work of couples therapy at its best is helping people move toward more of all four of these things. I hope you found this series useful and you want to go deeper. I've put together a free one page resource that summarizes the Four Cs framework and you can take it into your work with couples. So you can find that in the show notes. Again, if you didn't catch any of the previous episodes, I did one for each of the Four Cs.

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So you can go back and check that out. But thank you so much for listening. Take care. The episode this week is brought to you by Alma. They make it easy to get credentialed with major insurance plans at enhanced reimbursement rates. Alma handles all of the paperwork and guarantees payment within two weeks. Visit helloalma.com or click on the link in the show notes to learn more. Thank you again, everybody. This is Shane Birkel and this is the Couples Therapist Couch Podcast. It's all about the practice of couples therapy.

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I hope you have a great week and we'll see you next time. Bye everybody.