283: Compassion: The 4 Cs in Relationships with Shane Birkel

Welcome back to The Couples Therapist Couch! This podcast is about the practice of Couples Therapy. Each week, Shane Birkel interviews an expert in the field of Couples Therapy to explore all about the world of relationships and how to be an amazing therapist.

In this solo episode, Shane dives into Compassion as part of his mini-series, The 4 Cs in Relationships. Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and your other favorite podcast spots, and watch it on YouTube – follow and leave a 5-star review.

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The Couples Therapist Couch 283: Compassion: The 4 Cs in Relationships with Shane Birkel

This episode is brought to you by Alma. Visit https://helloalma.com/dg/?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=paid&utm_campaign=privatepractice to learn more

Get the Couples Therapy 101 course: https://www.couplestherapistcouch.com/

Join the Couples Therapist Inner Circle: https://www.couplestherapistcouch.com/inner-circle-new 

In this solo episode, Shane dives into Compassion as part of his mini-series, The 4 Cs in Relationships. Hear why compassion is tied so closely to shame, how to view shame vs. guilt, what to do when a client is struggling with shame, the 3 ways of pursuing self-esteem, and how much is a healthy amount of comparing yourself to others. Here's a small sample of what you'll hear in this episode:

•  Shane's personal story: anxiety about getting out the door and what inner child work revealed
• Why defensiveness and accountability cannot coexist
• Every person who walks into your office is inherently worthy
• Why defensiveness and blame in couples aren't just communication problems
• What inner child work actually looks like

Show Notes

• 283: Compassion: The 4 Cs in Relationships with Shane Birkel
• This episode is brought to you by Alma. Visit https://helloalma.com/dg/?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=paid&utm_campaign=privatepractice to learn more
• [1:57] Introducing compassion as the third of the Four C's and why shame is the key concept underneath it
• [2:27] Why defensiveness and blame in couples aren't just communication problems
• [3:23] The opposite of shame: what healthy self-esteem and inherent worthiness actually mean
• [4:23] Every person who walks into your office is inherently worthy and that's the backdrop for all couples work
• [5:18] Strengths, weaknesses, and the trap of using them to define your worth
• [6:16] Brené Brown's distinction: why toxic shame collapses inward while healthy guilt opens toward the other person
• [7:11] Why guilt actually requires self-esteem and how it creates space for accountability
• [8:08] The affair example: how shame hijacks the repair process and pulls focus away from the betrayed partner
• [9:58] Helping the partner who had the affair stay present and why shame makes that almost impossible
• [10:56] Shifting from shame to healthy guilt: "You feel guilty because you're a good person"
• [12:24] Why defensiveness and accountability cannot coexist and what clears the space for real repair
• [14:14] Three unhealthy sources of self-esteem: performance-based, other-based, and attribute-based
• [15:42] How performance-based esteem makes a complaint about the trash feel like a threat to your worth
• [17:33] This episode is brought to you by Alma. Visit https://helloalma.com/dg/?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=paid&utm_campaign=privatepractice to learn more
• [17:38] The cardiogram metaphor: how our sense of worth fluctuates moment to moment throughout the day
• [19:28] Shane's personal story: anxiety about getting out the door and what inner child work revealed
• [21:22] What inner child work actually looks like 
• [22:17] The shift that follows: showing up with patience because you're no longer in survival mode
• [23:17] Compassion doesn't mean agreement, you can hold space for your partner without becoming a doormat
• [24:13] Compassion for yourself and your partner as the foundation for meaningful boundary conversations
• [25:12] How the Four C's build on each other: consciousness → curiosity → compassion → connection
• This episode is brought to you by Alma. Visit https://helloalma.com/dg/?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=paid&utm_campaign=privatepractice to learn more

 

What is The Couples Therapist Couch?

This podcast is about the practice of Couples Therapy. Many of the episodes are interviews with leaders in the field of Relationships. The show is meant to help Therapists and Coaches learn how to help people to deepen their connection, but in the process it explores what is most needed for each of us to love, heal, and grow. Each week, Shane Birkel interviews an expert in the field of Couples Therapy to explore all about the world of relationships and how to be an amazing therapist.

Learn more about the Couples Therapy 101 course: https://www.couplestherapistcouch.com/

Find out more about the Couples Therapist Inner Circle: https://www.couplestherapistcouch.com/inner-circle-new

Transcript

Please note: this transcript is not 100% accurate.

00:00

your sense of value doesn't come from your performance  or how you look or whether other people think that you're good enough or not.

 

00:13

Welcome to the Couples Therapist Couch, the podcast for couples therapists, marriage counselors, and relationship coaches to explore the practice of couples therapy. And now,  your host,  Shane Birkel.

 

00:30

Hey everybody. Welcome back to the Couples Therapist's Couch. This is Shane Birkel and this is the podcast that's all about the practice of couples therapy.  Thank you so much for tuning in. I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist and the goal of this podcast is to help you learn how to more effectively work with couples and possibly even learn how to have a better relationship. The episode this week is brought to you by Alma. They make it easy to get credentialed with major insurance plans at enhanced reimbursement rates.

 

00:59

Alma handles all of the paperwork and guarantees payment within two weeks. Visit helloalma.com or click on the link in the show notes to learn more. everyone. Welcome back to the Couples Therapist Couch. This is Shane Birkel and this is the podcast that's all about the practice of couples therapy. Thank you so much for tuning in. I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist and I really enjoy teaching other therapists about how to work with couples  and  we're in the

 

01:28

midst of a series that I created about the four C's. And the four C's are consciousness, curiosity, compassion, and connection. And these are things that create a framework for how we work with couples and what we're helping them to accomplish when we're working with couples. So a couple episodes ago, I did an overview of all of the four C's. And then I did one episode on

 

01:57

consciousness. And then the last episode was on curiosity. And today I'm to talk about compassion.  And  in that last episode, I mentioned shame,  and I talked about how we'd get into it more. And I think that's one of the main concepts that we need to talk about when we're talking about compassion here. So I'm going to get into that in a much deeper way.  And  I think that there's often something that happens when

 

02:27

we're working with couples where, you know, someone's becoming defensive or minimizing, or they're becoming blaming and criticizing. And on the surface, it looks like a communication problem, but underneath what's often happening  is  almost always some sort of shame. And this is how I see human beings.  The moment that someone feels criticized or,  or

 

02:55

blamed, something deeper gets activated and there's a sense of unworthiness. I think that we're all sort of struggling with deep down inside. And when that happens, compassion becomes almost impossible. The focus collapses inward and we, and we become more about protection of ourselves and we don't have the ability to connect.

 

03:23

The shame.

 

03:26

comes from uh a sense,  you know, the opposite of shame is about valuing ourselves. The opposite of shame is about having a sense of, you know, self esteem or self love. And a lot of therapists talk about this, you know, you need to have self love, you need to have self esteem. And I think all of us on a conscious level, sort of say, yeah, sure,  I love myself. But  I think on a deeper level, it's uh really hard to see the ways in which we struggle with this.

 

03:55

And this is where exploring, you know, experiences you had as a child can be really helpful because I think all of us have different ways that our shame core gets formed depending on the environment we grow up in, the society we grow up in, the family we grow up in. There's different beliefs that play out that keep us from feeling our sense of inherent worthiness. And that's something that I think is true.

 

04:23

that every single human being is inherently worthy. Every single person who walks into your office when you're working with them as a therapist is inherently worthy. One of the simple ways that I would describe therapy really is about helping people return to the truth of their inherent worthiness. That when people are struggling in life, it's because they're dealing with some sort of shame.

 

04:51

that moves them away from the belief in their inherent worthiness. Worthiness comes not from,  it's not because of what you've achieved, it's not because of who approves of you, it's not because of what you have, it's simply because you are, because you are human. We all have strengths and weaknesses,  and sometimes we use those to define ourselves either at, you know,

 

05:18

as exceptional because of my strengths or as broken because of my weaknesses.  And I think it's good to honor people's strengths  and, you know, celebrate people's strengths. But at the same time, um realize all of us have different strengths and weaknesses, and that doesn't make you any less than as a person. This is something that very much gets in the way of compassion.

 

05:45

And I think it's something that we can hold in the back of our mind as a backdrop. You know, when I see people struggling in couples therapy,  uh, struggling with argument  and having a hard time stuck in their cycle, you know, one of the things I'm always thinking about in the back of my mind is like, how is this person specifically having a hard time valuing themselves or feeling worthy? That can be a really helpful  backdrop for, all of the work that we do.

 

06:16

So something about, I want to get a little deeper with this and uh Brene Brown makes a really important distinction between  shame, which is,  I would say is toxic, toxic shame  and guilt, which is healthy. Shame is fundamentally preoccupied with self, right? When someone is in shame, they're focused on

 

06:42

Uh, you know, I'm, horrible. I feel horrible. I'm not enough. Something is wrong with me and it's very  self referential and, doesn't leave a lot of space for other people in the situation. When we're talking about guilt, guilt is actually one of the foundational things that can, can lead to compassion. But, um,  guilt is about the other person. Guilt is about

 

07:11

compassion for other. I did something hurtful to another human being and I feel bad because I care about that person and I don't want them to be hurt. So guilt actually requires a lot of self-esteem, which is the opposite of shame in order to stay present with what you did and feel genuine concern for the other person  and be accountable as well. Accountability is an important part of that.

 

07:37

So shame really collapses that it pulls the focus entirely back into me and my own pain.  And, and by the way, I have compassion for people who get pulled into their own shame. mean, there are reasons why that makes sense, but, but this is part of what gets in the way of having a healthy connection in a relationship. And it's often what leads to,  you know, if you're on the attack, can lead to  criticism, blame judgment of the other person.

 

08:08

Or if you  are on the protective side, it can lead to defensiveness, shutting down, uh minimizing. Let me give an example, because there's one situation that really brings this to life when you work with couples, and that's with couples who have been through an affair situation.  And  oftentimes when somebody has an affair, you know, one of the most important parts of the process is to set up an experience.

 

08:36

where the person who had the affair is a listener and the person who was betrayed has the opportunity to share how they're feeling and what's going on for them. And to really help the person who had the affair sit with the discomfort of that conversation, that can be a really important part of what builds trust back in the relationship. And this can happen over several sessions over a long period of time. But when I'm working through this in therapy,

 

09:05

You know, have that moment when the betrayed partner is trying to talk about how they're feeling.  And I really want to help the person who had the affair stay, stay present with that and to hear it and to let it land. But sometimes those moments end up with  the partner treating it as a problem that needs to be managed or move past. Right. And I think what they're avoiding their own sense of shame, uh, right, because

 

09:33

they feel so bad about themselves for  enacting the betrayal that they feel like such a bad person. What they really want is just to say, let's move on with the conversation. I love you. Let's just move on. I don't want to talk about it anymore. Now,  if we can help them sort of see that it's really important.

 

09:58

for them to realize like the partner who's been betrayed might need to talk about this for a long time. I you know, I have people who have been working through this for two years or something like that, and it gets better and better along the way. But there has to be this opportunity for the person who was betrayed to talk about how they're feeling. And the goal of the person who had the affair is to create space for that reality. And when they go into shame,

 

10:28

I mean, first of all, the affair itself was a selfish decision that they made. And then they were preoccupied with what they wanted. And then if they go into shame and start talking about, I'm such a terrible person. Oh my gosh, I can't believe this. They're once again  becoming preoccupied with what's going on with them. And they lose connection with their partner who was betrayed. Now, if we...

 

10:56

connect with, we can help them connect with the healthy guilt. It might look a little bit similar, but it's more about the compassion for their partner. It's about their ability to feel bad, you know, and be accountable and say, I'm really sorry that I did that.  But to focus on the hurt of their partner. Right. And, you know, I  tell, sometimes people will say, I feel really guilty about what I did. If I'm the therapist, I'll say,

 

11:26

you feel guilty because you're a good person.  And it's good. It's really good to pause after that and let it land because that's really meaningful. Like good people feel guilty when they hurt another human being. And part of that feeling of discomfort is what will motivate you to follow through on being accountable in this relationship going forward. That's a really important message, but

 

11:55

You know, I'm trying to highlight the difference between what it looks like when they get caught up in shame  versus what that healthy guilt can look like. The healthy guilt enables them to stay present and conscious and show up for their partner in that moment.  And  it provides  the opportunity for real accountability to happen when you're not collapsed into shame and not defending yourself from it.

 

12:24

You can stay present with what you did and genuinely own it.  Not as a performance or not as over apologizing.  That's really about you making,  making you feel better. But, but as a true acknowledgement of the other person's pain, know, defensiveness and accountability cannot exist at the same time. And, and the shame makes the accountability almost impossible because the focus is

 

12:53

entirely on protecting the self. So the healthy guilt with enough self-esteem underneath it is what clears the space for that repair to happen and to move into compassion. Building a private practice can be challenging. Filing all of the right paperwork is time-consuming and tedious. And even after you're done, it can take months to get credentialed and start seeing clients. That's why Alma makes it easy and financially rewarding to accept insurance.

 

13:21

When you join Alma, you can get credentialed within 45 days and access enhanced reimbursement rates with major payers. They also handle all of the paperwork from eligibility checks to claim submissions and guarantee payment within two weeks of each appointment. Plus when you join Alma, you'll get access to time-saving tools for intakes, scheduling, treatment plans, progress notes, and more in their included platform. Alma helps you spend less time on administrative work.

 

13:49

and more time offering great care to your clients. Visit helloalma.com or click the link in the show notes to learn more. There are three ways that I've heard identified as a way of pursuing uh self-esteem that is not uh coming from within, that's not healthy, right? It's  externally focused, right? And these are performance-based esteem,

 

14:17

other based esteem and attribute based esteem. And performance based esteem is I'm enough and I matter because of how I perform in the world. You know, because I get good grades or because I make a lot of money or because  I have a good job or I have a lot of degrees. So as you know, or, you know, for kids, it could be like, cause I'm good at sports or something like that. So there's this feeling of like my

 

14:46

value as a human being is dependent on my performance in the world and this is a this is one of the reasons people get so defensive as well because When you know if my partner  just complains about the fact that I didn't take the trash out You know part of that is complaining about my performance  and if I'm really caught up in The idea that my performance is connected to me being enough me being worthy as a person

 

15:14

then that's something that's going to feel really triggering for me.  Other based esteem is I'm enough and I matter because  somebody else thinks I am.  And this is like people pleasers. This is like, you know, as long as I make everybody else happy, then I can feel good about myself. Right. This is like probably conflict avoiders, right? If somebody's

 

15:42

trying to argue with me, I'm just going to avoid that because it makes me feel like I'm doing something wrong. And then attribute based esteem is I'm enough and I matter because I feel like I'm attractive or I feel like I'm strong  or I mean, this one could be because I have a lot of money, because I have a nice car. It's the things that  you have in your life, either part of you or your material possessions.

 

16:09

It might be interesting to think about which ones of these you recognize in yourself, which one most resonates with you. mean, I think aspects of all of these exist within each of us. But the important thing is to realize that the healthy self-esteem isn't dependent on any of these other things. You know, I think I hear other,  I've heard other people talk about this in the wrong way, where it's like, Oh, we got to help somebody feel  a sense of self-esteem. let's help them.

 

16:39

you know, win a lot of games or let's help them so they, you know, do well on things so they feel better in the world. And,  you know, especially as  adults, the important thing is to realize like your sense of value doesn't come from your performance  or how you look or whether other people think that you're good enough or not. So,  you know, we're really trying to move into compassion for yourself.

 

17:08

And again, to go back to  the strengths and weaknesses, like,  or the idea of making mistakes, right? Uh, I made a mistake.  I'm still enough and I matter and I'm worthy in the world. The important thing is being accountable for your mistakes. So, you know, one of the things that happens is that people end up comparing themselves to others.

 

17:38

So, and here's one way that I've thought about this. If you imagine a horizontal line, it's going from left to right and almost like a cardiogram. Like if you've seen a movie or they have it on the screen, you know, or it's like  going up and down, there's like a horizontal line going across and it's bouncing up and down connected to the heart rate. You know, so if you imagine going through your day, right, you wake up in the morning,

 

18:06

that line starts to go across the screen and you look in the mirror and you see a big pimple on your face and the line goes down. It sinks into feeling like I'm less than. What are people going to think of me? And you take a shower, you get dressed, you do your hair and you look in the mirror and you're like, actually, whoa, actually I'm looking really good today. And that line goes up. The goal is to stay in the middle.

 

18:36

The goal is healthy self esteem is staying in the middle. I am no better than or no less than any other human being. Right. But then you drive to work and you pull up  in your parking spot and the guy next to you has a lot nicer car than you do. And you go down below the line. Well, I'm not doing enough to be successful in my life. Right. But then you get out of the car.

 

19:01

and you walk inside and they're talking about, you know, the sports team and what happened last night and you watch the game so you know, and then that line goes up because you're able to talk about it and you feel like accepted by your peers, right? So this is what's happening to us, you know, moment by moment. It's not just a day by day basis. It's a moment by moment basis where we're constantly trying to feel like we're enough in the world. And again,

 

19:28

The goal is to be able to experience reality with, you know, staying in the truth of the fact that you are valuable no matter what happens. So I want to share something  personal here. I mean, this is a story I've talked about before, but you know, I have a lot of anxiety about getting out the door. I have a lot of anxiety about being on time.  And,  you know, I think that I grew up in a family.

 

19:58

where I had a bunch of siblings  and it always felt stressful and overwhelming trying to get out the door. And I think I kind of took that on. You know, what would happen is with my, with my own kids and my wife, you know, it would be like a Saturday. both have the day off of work. We wouldn't have  anything going on, but I would get it in my mind. Like we got to get out the door by 10 o'clock or something like that.

 

20:25

And as soon as it started getting close to that, I started getting stressed and overwhelmed. And I would say, why are you packing the cooler faster?  And, you know, telling the kid like, kid, why aren't you getting your shoes on yet? We got to get out of here.  And kind of like creating the stress.  You know, I became  the person who was creating the anxiety and stress, and I'm probably passing it on to my children.  And when I started going to therapy.

 

20:52

and working, doing some inner child work  and learning to speak to that little eight year old boy who was really anxious all the time inside of me, right? Who had a belief that a good little boy gets out the door when he's supposed to.  And, you know, if he doesn't do that, then somebody is going to get criticized or blamed  or shamed for not doing that. In doing that inner child work, it's really about imagining that little

 

21:22

eight year old child  and uh addressing the shame that exists with that. Learning to talk to that younger part of myself. Something like, makes sense that you're so anxious.  You are such a wonderful little boy.  I understand how you feel. I'm here for you. You don't have to feel worried about this anymore. I got you, right? Sometimes it could just be imagining just holding that little

 

21:52

part of yourself and giving them a lot of love and compassion and understanding, telling that part of you that it's not their fault. They're just a little boy in the situation  or a little girl that the most important thing is that we show up with love and kindness for each other.  And once I was able to  give that compassion and love to the younger part of myself,

 

22:17

I could show up with my wife and with my kids in a much more patient, authentic way. Not because I was suppressing anything. This is important too, because a lot of people feel like, I just have to stuff down my feelings. I have to suppress it. But at that point, it's not because I'm suppressing anything. It's because I'm not in survival mode anymore. And I'm actually connected to the truth of reality and the truth of my own desires of what I really want. What I really want is for

 

22:47

my family with my, you know, with my wife and my kids to be happy and healthy and relaxed. And I was actually creating something that was getting in the way of that. got confused because I thought being on time would create that for me when  my goal of being on time was actually creating an environment where I was doing the opposite of what I really wanted. You know, this is really important insight for people to gain as we work with them  in  therapy.

 

23:17

And something I said before in one of the previous episodes is that compassion doesn't mean agreement. You can hold space for your partner's pain and your partner's perspective, and you still have the right to see things differently. You can make them feel heard and understood without agreeing with their version of events or abandoning your own perspective. You know, and I think a lot of people resist the compassion because they're afraid of becoming a doormat, but that's not what it is.

 

23:46

Compassion is about making the other person feel seen and heard and understood, but also having enough compassion for yourself to make sure that you stay true to your own authentic voice and your own boundaries and what you need. And actually I'm going to be talking a lot about boundaries in the next episode, because I think that's a big part of this. you have compassion for yourself and compassion for your partner,

 

24:13

then we can really have some meaningful boundary conversations and how to set boundaries and how to accomplish that. That's such an important part of connection. And that's the  topic for the next episode is  the idea of connection. When people start feeling that sense of worthiness, the self-esteem and feeling the ability to have boundaries, then they can really feel safe enough to be honest with each other.

 

24:42

and vulnerable with each other. And that creates safety  and the feeling of  connection is what emerges from that. That's what we're going to,  again, talk about next time. And thank you so much for listening. If you missed any of the previous episodes, you can always go back. There's the one describing all four C's and then there's one on consciousness, one on curiosity, one on compassion and one on connection.

 

25:12

And one of the  great things about this as I'm sort of talking through it and I'm beginning to formulate this idea is that I think that one emerges from the other. So consciousness is really the first step, becoming conscious of what's happening within you and what's happening in the patterns in your relationship, having that awareness, and then beginning to become curious about them. And then  moving into some of this work on the shame.

 

25:41

and moving into compassion for yourself and for your partner, and then moving into what everybody seeks out couples therapy for, which is the connection with your partner. So I hope this is helpful. Let me know if you have any questions. I'll post the next episode about connection coming up soon here. The episode this week is brought to you by Alma. They make it easy to get credentialed with major insurance plans at enhanced reimbursement rates.

 

26:08

Alma handles all of the paperwork and guarantees payment within two weeks.  Visit helloalma.com  or click on the link in the show notes to learn more.  And thank you again, everybody. This is Shane Birkel and this is the Couples Therapist Couch podcast. It's all about the practice of couples therapy.  I hope you have a great week and we'll see you next time.  Bye everybody.