282: Curiosity: The 4 Cs in Relationships with Shane Birkel

Welcome back to The Couples Therapist Couch! This podcast is about the practice of Couples Therapy. Each week, Shane Birkel interviews an expert in the field of Couples Therapy to explore all about the world of relationships and how to be an amazing therapist.

In this solo episode, Shane dives into Curiosity as part of his mini-series, The 4 Cs in Relationships. Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and your other favorite podcast spots, and watch it on YouTube – follow and leave a 5-star review.

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The Couples Therapist Couch 282: Curiosity: The 4 Cs in Relationships with Shane Birkel

This episode is brought to you by Alma. Visit https://helloalma.com/dg/?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=paid&utm_campaign=privatepractice to learn more

Get the Couples Therapy 101 course: https://www.couplestherapistcouch.com/

Join the Couples Therapist Inner Circle: https://www.couplestherapistcouch.com/inner-circle-new 

In this solo episode, Shane dives into Curiosity as part of his mini-series, The 4 Cs in Relationships. Hear why being a couples therapist can feel like being a judge, how to help shift your clients’ mindsets to curiosity, how to work on the ability to slow down, why strong emotions are okay, and why timeouts can be great in couples therapy. Here's a small sample of what you'll hear in this episode:

• Shifting from judgment and defensiveness to openness and exploration
• How curiosity about your partner's reality creates safety and connection
• Inner child work: getting curious about what age you feel in conflict
• The speaker-listener exercise as a structure for curiosity and presence
• Moving from curiosity toward compassion: a preview of what's next

Show Notes

• 282: Curiosity: The 4 Cs in Relationships with Shane Birkel
• This episode is brought to you by Alma. Visit https://helloalma.com/dg/?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=paid&utm_campaign=privatepractice to learn more

• [1:55] How couples fall into the courtroom dynamic: proving who's right instead of connecting

• [3:18] Moving into curiosity: what to do when your partner says "you never listen to me"

• [4:17] Why explaining away a partner's feelings often leaves them feeling invalidated

• [5:16] Curiosity as the next step after consciousness: shifting from judgment and fixing toward openness and exploration

• [6:09] Why people avoid sitting with negative emotions and the missed opportunity that creates

• [7:08] Inner child work in conflict: getting curious about what age you feel in a triggered moment

  [8:02] Curiosity as the antidote to control: exploring what's happening rather than trying to change it

• [8:58] You don't have to agree - you just have to get curious: a practical example with raised voices 

• [10:24] Questions to ask yourself: what am I feeling, what belief is driving it, what meaning am I making up? 

• [11:04] Curiosity as a mindfulness practice: observing internal experience without judging it 

• [12:28] Why sitting with discomfort feels threatening - and how therapy can help 

• [12:57] Client example: household responsibilities, mental load, and slowing the conversation down 

• [14:45] The listener's role: creating space for a partner's emotions rather than fixing them 

• [15:37] Why strong emotions feel like a problem to solve - and how to create new associations 

• [16:36] How curiosity deepens connection and creates intimacy between partners

• [17:33] This episode is brought to you by Alma. Visit https://helloalma.com/dg/?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=paid&utm_campaign=privatepractice to learn more

• [18:32] You don't have to solve the problem - sometimes feeling heard is enough 

• [19:01] Surface conflicts vs. deeper themes: why it's rarely just about the trash 

• [20:24] When curiosity clears the way for problem solving: the example of deciding whether to have a child 

• [21:22] The speaker-listener exercise: one speaker, one listener, and the importance of consent 

• [22:27] The listener's responsibilities: staying present, asking questions, and validating without having to agree 

• [23:56] How the speaker-listener approach reduces defensiveness and deepens vulnerability 

• [25:23] Personal example: a teenage daughter, a rejected hug, and taking ownership of your own emotions 

• [28:18] Taking responsibility for your own emotions rather than making others fix them 

• [28:46] The timeout agreement: how to step away without stonewalling, and when to come back 

• [30:49] Using the timeout to get curious: what do I really need, and how can I express it without blame? 

• [31:23] The Chinese farmer parable: non-judgment, staying open, and resisting the urge to label things good or bad 

• [34:09] Bringing it back to relationships: curiosity softens conflict and opens the door to compassion 

• [35:25] Preview of the next episode: moving from curiosity to compassion in the Four Cs series

• This episode is brought to you by Alma. Visit https://helloalma.com/dg/?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=paid&utm_campaign=privatepractice to learn more

What is The Couples Therapist Couch?

This podcast is about the practice of Couples Therapy. Many of the episodes are interviews with leaders in the field of Relationships. The show is meant to help Therapists and Coaches learn how to help people to deepen their connection, but in the process it explores what is most needed for each of us to love, heal, and grow. Each week, Shane Birkel interviews an expert in the field of Couples Therapy to explore all about the world of relationships and how to be an amazing therapist.

Learn more about the Couples Therapy 101 course: https://www.couplestherapistcouch.com/

Find out more about the Couples Therapist Inner Circle: https://www.couplestherapistcouch.com/inner-circle-new

Transcript

Please note: this transcript is not 100% accurate.

00:00
you don't even have to solve the problem. Sometimes this is all that's necessary.

00:10
to The Couples Therapist Couch, the podcast for couples therapists, marriage counselors, and relationship coaches to explore the practice of couples therapy. And now, your host, Shane Birkel.

00:26
Hey everybody. Welcome back to The Couples Therapists Couch. This is Shane Birkel, and this is the podcast that's all about the practice of couples therapy. Thank you so much for tuning in. I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist, and the goal of this podcast is to help you learn how to more effectively work with couples and possibly even learn how to have a better relationship. The episode this week is brought to you by Alma. They make it easy to get credentialed with major insurance plans at enhanced reimbursement rates.

00:55
Alma handles all of the paperwork and guarantees payment within two weeks. Visit HelloAlma.com or click on the link in the show notes to learn more. Hey everyone, welcome back to the Couples Therapist Couch. This is Shane Birkel and this is the podcast that's all about the practice of couples therapy. I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist and I try to bring you the best guests in the world of couples therapy and also do solo episodes to talk about what I think

01:24
really works well in working with couples. Hopefully if you're not a therapist, you can also learn a lot about how to have a good relationship. I'm doing a series right now called the Four C's. The last episode I explained the first C, which is consciousness. And so in this episode, I'm going to go into curiosity. So if you haven't heard the, the, the, this is actually the third

01:55
recording in this series. In the first one, I just did the overview of the four Cs. And then, like I said, the last one I did consciousness and this one I'm doing curiosity. So, you know, we could start with a familiar couples dynamic. One of the most common things I see when people come into couples therapy is that it almost feels like both partners are trying to prove who's right. And sometimes as a therapist,

02:24
You start to feel like you're almost like a judge that needs to determine who's presenting a better case. So one partner might say to the other, you never listened to me. And the other partner responds, that's not true. I listened to you yesterday. And the first partner says, well, you only listened because I asked you three times. And then suddenly the whole conversation becomes like a courtroom. Each person is presenting evidence trying to prove

02:54
their version of reality is correct. The simple solution, uh one way of looking at it is instead of, I think when this happens, if you have a level of consciousness, you can begin to look at why am I becoming defensive about what's being said, right?

03:18
And then I can begin to be curious, like what's going on inside of me? If my partner says that I never listened to them, well, first of all, there are opportunities on both sides of this. There's a different way of saying that that I think is a lot that is important, where they could say something like, I don't feel heard. Where they're owning their reality. It's, you know, moving away from blame and criticism, but

03:47
If you are hearing that statement, your job is to move into curiosity. Right? So if one partner says, you never listened to me, uh, and I'm hearing that my job is to move into curiosity about their reality and what's going on for them. You know, there, there is that feeling inside of me that comes up that wants to explain it away, right? To, to, in order to make them feel better, I'm going to let them know that I do want to listen to them.

04:17
so that they don't feel bad anymore. It could come from really good intentions oftentimes, but it often leaves the other partner feeling invalidated for what they're trying to say, right? So our job with the curiosity is to create space and safety for the other person's perspective. When we start arguing over who's right, we lose the ability to be curious about what's really going on.

04:45
One, within yourself and two, what's going on with your partner. In the last episode when we talking about consciousness, it's about seeing the pattern, seeing what's going on within you, seeing what's going on within the relationship. Once you begin to become conscious of that, part of consciousness is figuring out what you really want because a lot of these kind of back and forth, uh stressful,

05:16
conflict, uh communication doesn't actually lead to what you really want, right? And that's part of the consciousness. What are you really hoping for in this situation? Are you taking the actions that are required to accomplish what you want? And when we move into curiosity, we begin to move beyond the pattern. begin to, it's the next step. Once you start becoming conscious,

05:44
to shift from the judgment, the mindset of judgment, certainty, fixing, defending, and try to move toward openness, exploration, and acceptance. And again, that's both for yourself and for your partner.

06:09
A lot of people will feel things that they perceive as negative, like sadness, anger, fear, hurt. And they'll sort of experience these feelings. And I think because of our society, because of the way we've been socialized, there's a strong tendency to sort of think, I want to not feel this thing as quickly as possible. I want some relief.

06:38
from feeling what I perceive as negative emotions. And I think there's a missed opportunity oftentimes where if you are feeling hurt or afraid or angry, to become curious about why is this going on inside of me? What part of me is feeling this? And that's a really good question that goes along with what we talked about last week.

07:08
You know, and I talked a little bit about inner child work. I could feel like what age do I feel right now? Right. Because a lot of times when we're in a conflict situation, it sends our nervous system into something that feels much younger. Right. All of us have the wise adult part of ourselves that can deal with reality and deal with what's in front of us and lives with strength and

07:35
love and compassion and understanding for others. But when we feel, when we're under threat, right, and that fight or flight gets activated and our prefrontal cortex shuts down, you know, we're going into nervous system responses that were developed when we were younger, at a younger age, right? So a lot of times you might notice if you're feeling activated,

08:02
You might close your eyes and take a deep breath and try to be curious about what am I feeling? What is this connected to? Right? There are probably childhood experiences that are connected to what you're feeling in that moment. If you're moving away from feeling like an empowered adult. I think control is a big piece of this, right? Where I'm trying to control what's happening in my reality in order to make me feel safe.

08:29
Like even if my partner says, you never listened to me and I'm trying to explain why that's not true. I'm trying to control their perspective. I'm trying to make them see, uh, that the reality isn't what they think it is because then I feel safer. feel like, maybe if I convince them, then my partner won't be mad at me. And it causes the opposite. So curiosity is the willingness to explore what's happening.

08:58
inside of me and what's happening with my partner rather than trying to control or change it. It doesn't mean I have to agree with their perspective. This is really important, right? Your partner could say, well, you yelled at me yesterday and you may not remember raising your voice at all. So you don't have to agree with what they're saying, but it's such a valuable opportunity

09:27
to move into curiosity and try to understand where they're coming from. What do you lose? What does it cost you to say, oh my gosh, do you feel like I yelled at you yesterday? Tell me more about the situation. What happened? I don't remember. I don't even remember that. I want to move into understanding compassion for what you're talking about. And again, you don't have to agree with them about their take on it.

09:57
It requires you to have sort of a healthy sense of self, healthy self-esteem, you know, the ability to know that you're not a bad person. And this goes to the core of shame. And uh we'll talk more about that, I think, in the next episode. But instead of reacting immediately, it's the ability to slow down and explore our internal experience.

10:24
we could ask ourselves things like, what am I feeling right now? What belief might be informing what I'm feeling? What part of me is activated right now? And I talked about this in the last episode, but I love that question of what meaning am I making up about what's happening in the situation right now? These are all forms of curiosity. And again,

10:49
There's the curiosity for what's going on inside me internally and there's the curiosity for what's happening for my partner. I said this one already, but you know what part of me is feeling this way right now.

11:04
And curiosity allows us to observe our internal experience without judging it. And our minds constantly want to judge reality. You know, this thing is good. This thing is bad. This thing is, you know, if I feel hurt, this is a bad thing that needs to be fixed. Right. When we move into curiosity, it actually helps us stay in the truth of reality.

11:31
Um, our judgment moves us away. Our judgment could be right, maybe half the time, uh, or there are aspects of truth that are wrapped up in it. But when we move into curiosity, it's trying to stay present and grounded in the truth of what's happening in reality. So, uh, you know, it's very much a mindfulness practice, uh, and trying to be aware and mindful of.

12:01
you know, if I'm noticing that I'm feeling hurt, let me be curious about what's happening for me. Maybe part of it is what my partner is doing, but there's probably a lot more complexity to it that you can gain a lot more feeling of empowerment and feeling of being able to manage what's happening if you actually allow yourself to be curious and get to the bottom of your own experience.

12:28
This is really hard because people have a lot of fear about going into some of these things. know, some people feel like if I actually allow myself to be curious about what I'm feeling and sit with that, sit with the discomfort, I'm going to fall apart or, you know, I'm not going to survive. it's something, again, something important to be aware of and something that we can work through in therapy. But let me give another example.

12:57
to sort of ground what we're talking about. I was working with a couple recently that were arguing about household responsibilities. I mean, this is something that comes up a lot. And the wife felt like she was carrying most of the mental load in the relationship about all the things that needed to be done. And the husband was feeling like he was constantly being criticized no matter what he did.

13:21
And at one point she said something like, you never help with the kids' schedules. I'm always the one managing everything. And he responded, that's not true. I picked him up from practice twice last week. And she said something like, well, that's only because I reminded you three times. And then they're off to the races. And suddenly they're both trying to prove that their version of reality was correct.

13:50
And, know, it's really important at that moment to bring in the idea of curiosity, to slow the conversation down. Right. I think I turned to her and said something like, say a little bit more about what that feels like for you. Talk more about what's going on for you. And it's opening up an opportunity for that person to describe their experience.

14:17
Right? And there's so much more meaningful, non-judgmental, non-critical conversations that can happen at that point. Right? Because then she's reflecting on her own experience. It's not as much about blaming the other person. It's about, you know, I'm feeling overwhelmed. I feel like I have to carry everything in my head all the time. I'm feeling exhausted. I'm feeling unsupported.

14:45
And there's an invitation to the partner of, can you slow down for a moment and just be curious about what your partner is saying? Right? Like, like your job right now, if you want to do what is most helpful for your partner, do you have the ability to create some space for their reality to give them acceptance about what they're feeling?

15:12
and just let them know that they feel heard and seen and understood. And again, you don't have to agree with their take on it, but you are just allowing these emotions to be present in the room. One of the reasons that that is really hard for people is because a lot of us grow up in families and in a society where

15:37
there's an association in our brain that strong emotions equal a problem. Strong emotions equal something to be fixed. Right? And there's almost this automatic response. As soon as someone is expressing strong emotions, I need to move away from that as quickly as possible. moving away from that could look like fixing. It could look like explaining. It could look like minimizing the other person's experience in validating the other

16:06
the other person's experience or simply checking out of the conversation. But we have to create new associations for people in the way that they're interacting with each other. Again, like the most generous thing you can do right now is lean in to the conversation, is creating that space and acceptance for your partner to have strong emotions and not define it as a problem.

16:36
This is actually something that's very healthy for your relationship. And, you know, one of the most important things for people to be able to do is to give each other honest feedback about what's happening. Right. In this example, if one partner is complaining about carrying the mental load for everything, that's like a really important aspect of what's happening in their life. And if the other partner

17:04
can listen to that with curiosity and understanding, it's going to deepen their connection with each other. It's going to deepen their feeling of knowing each other on a deeper level. That's a really good word. It's an opportunity for knowing the other person on a deeper level. And this is what creates intimacy between people. Building a private practice can be challenging.

17:33
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18:02
Plus when you join Alma, you'll get access to time-saving tools for intakes, scheduling, treatment plans, progress notes, and more in their included platform. Alma helps you spend less time on administrative work and more time offering great care to your clients. Visit helloalma.com or click the link in the show notes to learn more. You know, and then once the other person starts feeling heard and understood, oftentimes what happens is their nervous system is calmed.

18:32
Right? The conversation begins to soften and they're less inclined to continue blaming or arguing. And you don't, you don't even have to solve the problem. Sometimes this is all that's necessary. Some, know, I often tell people like, there are two things that might need to happen in the conversation. The first is for, for us to honor the emotions and the emotions are often connected to deeper themes.

19:01
Right? So I could forget to take the trash out and my partner could feel really angry about that, but it's not just about the trash. mean, it's about these deeper themes, you know, where she might feel like she's carrying the mental load for everything and has been feeling that for 10 years. so

19:27
When we start to talk about it, like we're problem solving around taking out the trash, it starts to feel really hard to have that conversation because we're not actually acknowledging that there's all these emotions underneath the surface that are coming in to the conversation. And so the first step is slowing that down and realizing like, not, we're not actually talking about the trash. We're talking about something much, much deeper here and just being aware of that, being conscious of that. Right.

19:58
first starting with the consciousness, but then getting really curious, right? And if someone's really angry about the other person not taking the trash out, there might be a lot more to it that they're not even aware of. They may not even be conscious of why they're so upset, but the other partner can provide that space to really explore what's going on. And again,

20:24
the more information you have about what's really going on, that's gonna be super helpful if you do have to get to the problem solving part. Because sometimes you do, right? Like I've had couples where they were trying to decide whether to have a child or not. And at the end of the day, you have to decide one way or the other. You're either gonna have a child or you're not. There's no compromise, there's no middle ground.

20:53
uh in some of these topics, but it was really, really helpful when we took the time for each person to explain how they felt about it what was going on for them. And we deeply worked on this strategy of uh making sure each person felt heard and seen and understood. And that's another thing about this. Both people deserve a turn. And I talk about the speaker listener.

21:22
uh exercise a lot. And I think this is like a really good strategy and a really good way to look at it, right? There's one speaker and one listener, and those are very different roles. A lot of times there's two speakers and no one's listening in the conversation. So if one person comes up to the other person and has something they want to talk about, they are the speaker and it's good to get consent.

21:52
Is your partner available to be the listener right now?

21:58
the listener is a much more difficult job. It's a much more generous offering to the other person. So it's really important to set it up in a way that's helpful. But the responsibilities of the speaker are about taking responsibility for their own reality and presenting it in a way that where they're speaking from the first person, this is what's happening for me. This is the meaning that I'm making up.

22:27
about it. This is how I feel. This is my request. It's about using language that owns their own reality. And the listener's job is to stay present and to stay curious and to ask questions and to validate the other person's experience. And again, they don't, you don't have to agree, but it really helps to set up the situation where there's one speaker and one listener.

22:55
And, you know, when we're talking about making a big decision, like having a baby or something like that, and if they have a different opinion, each person needs to take a turn to be the speaker and to feel heard and seen and understood by the other person. So that's the first step of the communication is just moving into compassion for what's going on for the other person. And again, it doesn't mean you have to agree to having a baby or something, so to speak, but

23:25
It means that you're willing to make your partner feel understood. And then once that happens, oftentimes the problem solving part of the conversation, which is the second step becomes much easier. But people have to have the ability to really move into that curiosity before they get to the next step. One of the things that happens when people use this speaker listener is that it creates a lot of safety.

23:56
You know, the defensiveness starts to decrease. The vulnerability increases. The conversations really deepen. And the number one priority in any relationship should be about the other person or should be about the relationship itself. It's like I might have things that I'm frustrated about. You know, let's say my, my partner is late all the time.

24:25
Like I might feel like it's valid for me to feel upset about that. But is it worth it? Like what level of me punishing my partner is okay? What level of me making my partner feel bad about themselves is okay? I mean, I would say none.

24:48
I have to own my own reality. have to express it in a way where I say this is something that's hard for me. And when I do that, I preserve the love and care and compassion in the relationship. Now everybody makes mistakes. It's okay if you move into harshness or something that feels disrespectful. But the important thing is to be accountable for that afterward. It's important that people don't live with the idea.

25:18
that it's okay to treat your partner however you feel like treating them.

25:23
Now, uh, there's another example that I'm thinking of, uh, that I think is just a really good illustration of the curiosity because I have a 15 year old daughter and you know, there are times where I go up to give her a hug and she sort of pushes me away and says, dad, I don't want to hug right now. And there are all kinds of feelings that come up.

25:51
in me, right? So one option would be for me to try to control the situation, say, Oh, come on, give me a hug. Oh, what's wrong? Just you got to give me a hug. I'm your dad. Right? That's me sort of trying to manage the situation. You know, I'm making up meaning in my mind that in order to have a good relationship with my daughter, I need her to hug me and show me love.

26:19
Right? Or in order to feel loved and appreciated, I need her to hug me. It feels hurtful, right? It feels like rejection. feels like there's all kinds of feelings coming up. And it's like, why, you know, we used to do this thing when you were little, you used to love having hugs and I used to love, know, giving you love in that way. Part of it is me changing my mindset about what's happening, like

26:47
On one level, it's really important for me to respect my daughter's boundaries. It's really important for me to own my own shit and not bring it into the relationship, right? So what that looks like in the moment is me just giving her lot of acceptance and understanding and saying, yeah, that's fine. You know, it's good for you to speak up about what feels okay for you. And that's letting her know that she has the right to say no and have boundaries and consent is important.

27:18
What's going on inside of me, which I don't really need to share with my daughter, is that feeling of rejection or hurt or whatever. And that's something for me just to be curious about. That's a really good opportunity for me to move into curiosity. You know, so I'm walking away from the situation and I'm thinking, why does this feel hurtful? Right? And I'm reframing it. I think the curiosity creates an opportunity for reframing it.

27:48
Like what a wonderful thing that I can do for my daughter that I can teach her that it's good for her to say no when she doesn't want something. That's a really important thing for her to learn. Now I may not feel good about it, but that doesn't matter. My, my feelings are connected to things that I need to own for myself and things I need to be curious about and explore for myself.

28:18
I don't want to make my daughter responsible for fixing my emotions. And I don't want to make my wife responsible for fixing my emotions or anyone else in my family. So I, part of this is taking responsibility for what's going on for you. And sometimes with couples, the timeouts can be really helpful.

28:46
If you're getting caught up in the moment and you know that you're communicating in a way that's really negative, it's good to take a timeout. And this is something that you set up an agree on ahead of time. Right. There's a big difference between turning your back and stonewalling versus taking a healthy timeout. So that could look like, you you make, you both make an agreement ahead of time that there are times when we.

29:15
get caught up in the moment and we say and do things that don't feel healthy for our relationship. And we're going to make an agreement. If we're getting to that point, either one of us can suggest a timeout, you know, and a lot of people come up with a random word, but when they say that word, what it means is I love you. care about you. I don't want to keep doing this with you. Let's take some time apart. And a lot of relationships have one

29:45
sort of emotionally avoidant person and one sort of emotionally pursuant person, it's good to make sure that the emotionally avoidant person doesn't just disappear for several days on end. Right? So part of the timeout is an agreement to come back or at least to check in. Right? Some, you know, I usually tell people after 20 to 30 minutes, it's a good time to come back and check in. And now you could say,

30:13
I'm not ready to reengage. Give me another couple hours. And at that point, maybe you need to take a couple hours. But there's at least some level of communication. There's at least a mindset of, I know that we're going to reconnect and come back to this. It's not just someone disappearing. So that's an important part of the timeout process is that the other person knows that you're going to come back to the conversation at some

30:42
a lot of people have fear like you're just going to avoid it and never come back.

30:49
So when you take a time out, that's a really good opportunity for each person to move into that curiosity. What's going on inside of me? What do I really need? What do I really want? What do I want my partner to understand? How can I express it in a way that feels like I'm owning my reality? That's not blaming, it's not criticizing. And how can I listen to the other person's perspective? How can I offer the generous gift of listening?

31:19
so that they feel heard and seen and understood.

31:23
So I want to end with this uh old Chinese proverb about non-judgment that I think is really important. And, you know, so there's this farmer and his horse ran away and his, you know, the village people came up to him and said, oh, this is really bad. Right. Like the horse was, you know, the way that he

31:52
did his farming, it was likely that he wasn't going to be able to tend his crops anymore without his horse. it really, at least make him much less productive. And the townspeople were like, this is really, really bad. And the farmer replied, maybe. The next day the horse returned and with it brought several other horses. And then in all of the village people said, oh my gosh, this is really good. This is great.

32:23
And the farmer replied, maybe.

32:27
The next day, the farmer's son was trying to tame one of the wild horses. And when he was riding it, he fell and he broke his leg. And all the townspeople said, oh no, this is really bad. And the farmer replied again, maybe. And soon after there was a war going on or something and the soldiers came to the village to

32:55
to recruit all of the young men to go to war. And because the farmer's son had a broken leg, he, he wasn't taken. And the neighbor said, Oh my gosh, this is so, this is really good. And once again, the farmer said, maybe. So this is very much a mindfulness practice as you're going through day to day life, whether it's in your relationship or just in any other

33:25
aspect of your life, that there's a choice about how we attach meaning to what's going on. And it's often really helpful to stay in this sort of, to work hard to stay in this sort of non-judgmental mindset, to stay in curiosity. Our brains often want to judge situations very quickly and we assume something is good or bad, right or wrong.

33:54
But the reality is that it's much more complex than that. And our curiosity allows us to stay open to a lot of possibilities rather than jumping to immediate conclusions.

34:09
So, you know, and to bring it back to relationships, I mean, a lot of conflicts come from quick judgments about our partner's intentions and the curiosity slows that down. The reality is if you are choosing to be with this other person, you obviously see the good in them. There's a lot of good things about them that you appreciate and that you're getting from their relationship.

34:38
And just because they're doing something that feels hurtful, there might be a question of, there enough good in this relationship that I'm willing to try to be patient and curious when they're upset?

34:56
because they're probably activated in their own way. This curiosity changes the feeling, feels softer, changes the conversation. Instead of defending ourselves or proving we're right, we're exploring each other's experience. And when partners begin to truly understand each other, there's something else that happens naturally. Maybe it doesn't always happen naturally, but the hope is that it will lead to compassion.

35:25
And that's the next episode, moving from the idea of curiosity to compassion. So I'm really looking forward to going into that next time, just to remind you of the four Cs. Two episodes ago, I talked about, I did a whole episode describing the four Cs, consciousness, curiosity, compassion, and connection. And now I'm going through each one. So last episode.

35:53
I talked all about consciousness. Today, obviously, I talked about curiosity. And then next time, I'll talk about compassion and then I'll do an episode on the connection. So these are the things that I think that I've seen so many times in my work with couple and that I think are essential to having a healthy relationship. So I hope this is helpful for everybody. Thank you so much. I'll see you next time. The episode this week is brought to you by Alma.

36:21
They make it easy to get credentialed with major insurance plans at enhanced reimbursement rates. handles all of the paperwork and guarantees payment within two weeks. Visit HelloAlma.com or click on the link in the show notes to learn more. And thank you again, everybody. This is Shane Birkel and this is The Couples Therapist Couch podcast. It's all about the practice of couples therapy. I hope you have a great week and we'll see you next time. Bye, everybody!