253: Relationships & Control with Shane Birkel

Welcome back to The Couples Therapist Couch! This podcast is about the practice of Couples Therapy. Each week, Shane Birkel interviews an expert in the field of Couples Therapy to explore all about the world of relationships and how to be an amazing therapist.

In this solo episode, Shane talks about relationships & control. Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and your other favorite podcast spots, and watch it on YouTube – follow and leave a 5-star review.

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The Couples Therapist Couch 253: Relationships & Control with Shane Birkel

This episode is brought to you by Alma. Visit HelloAlma.com/ATPP to learn more

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In this solo episode, Shane talks relationships & control. Hear all the things we can’t control in life, how to help your clients respect the autonomy of their partner, what makes people become controlling, the healthy way of talking through feelings, and how to help a client who’s on the receiving end of controlling energy. Here’s a small sample of what you will hear in this episode:

• How to approach conflict without using "right or wrong" thinking
• Control isn't even real
• How controlling parents impact their children
• The ability to communicate desires and navigate differences is vital to relationships
• What it takes to be in a loving relationship 

 Check out the episode, show notes, and transcript below: 

Show Notes

• 253: Relationships & Control with Shane Birkel

• This episode is brought to you by Alma. Visit HelloAlma.com/ATPP to learn more
• [0:38] Welcome to The Couples Therapist Couch 
• [1:20] Struggles over control
• [4:52] Determining what you can and cannot control
• [8:50] What it takes to be in a loving relationship
• [12:10] Making explicit agreements and trusting the other person
• [17:15] How to approach conflict without using "right or wrong" thinking
• [21:20] The ability to communicate desires and navigate differences is vital to relationships
• [25:32]  Alternative methods to control
• [27:45] This episode is brought to you by Alma. Visit HelloAlma.com/ATPP to learn more
• [28:37] The subtle ways control comes into a relationship
• [30:59] How controlling parents impact their children
• [35:01] Emotional manipulation as a form of covert control
• [36:11] How to let consequences teach your children rather than your emotional shame
• [39:50] Developing a level of consciousness in relationships
• This episode is brought to you by Alma. Visit HelloAlma.com/ATPP to learn more

 

What is The Couples Therapist Couch?

This podcast is about the practice of Couples Therapy. Many of the episodes are interviews with leaders in the field of Relationships. The show is meant to help Therapists and Coaches learn how to help people to deepen their connection, but in the process it explores what is most needed for each of us to love, heal, and grow. Each week, Shane Birkel interviews an expert in the field of Couples Therapy to explore all about the world of relationships and how to be an amazing therapist.

Learn more about the Couples Therapy 101 course: https://www.couplestherapistcouch.com/

Find out more about the Couples Therapist Inner Circle: https://www.couplestherapistcouch.com/inner-circle-new

Transcript

Please note: this transcript is not 100% accurate.

00:00

We do way too much where we're  just feeling triggered ourselves  and we're trying to control their behavior in order for us to feel better.

 

00:16

Welcome to The Couples Therapist Couch, the podcast for couples therapists, marriage counselors, and relationship coaches to explore the practice of couples therapy. And now  your host,  Shane Birkel.

 

00:33

Hey everybody. Welcome back to The Couples Therapist Couch. This is Shane Birkel, and this is the podcast that's all about the practice of couples therapy.  Thank you so much for tuning in. I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist, and the goal of this podcast is to help you learn how to more effectively work with couples and possibly even learn how to have a better relationship. The episode this week is brought to you by Alma. They make it easy to get credentialed with major insurance plans at enhanced reimbursement rates.

 

01:02

Alma handles all of the paperwork and guarantees payment within two weeks. Visit HelloAlma.com/ATPP or click on the link in the show notes to learn more. All right, today I'm going to talk about a topic that is really important in relationships  and there's some different ways to think about it, some different aspects to it that I'm going to go over.  The topic I want to talk about is control.  Obviously,

 

01:30

when we think about relationships  and control,  you can think about controlling people or people who are controlling partners, things like that. And I'll talk a little bit about that. That's kind of the obvious thing to think about. But  in some ways, all of us deal with struggles over control when we're talking about relationships, even if you're not a controlling person, even if you  have the desire to...

 

01:58

make your partner feel free and be accepting of them. There's still some things that are difficult about being in a relationship that require us to explore our own self and our own ways of handling stress in the world. I mean, the reality is that we don't have control over anything in life. This is one of the

 

02:28

things that I think comes up in therapy a lot, whether it's individual therapy or couples therapy, as human beings, we are trying to  feel like we have a sense of control over our own reality, I think because of a desire to feel safe. Even in  the way that we build security and  we want to protect our children, for example, we might create a home.

 

02:57

where  we can  protect them from the elements,  from natural disasters, we can provide heat, we can provide food.  These are ways of controlling our environment to build safety and security. But  when it comes down to it,  if there was  a comet that hit the earth and destroyed humanity,  we don't have control over that. In some ways, we have very little control over what happens in the world.

 

03:26

And,  you know, or even just an example, like if you're driving 75 miles down the highway, you have very little control over what other cars are going to do  or, you know, whether somebody does something erratic  and that, you know, there are obviously accidents that happen every day. And so we try to create a sense of safety and security in the world and try to make us feel like.

 

03:54

we're in control over what's going on. And I don't think that's a problem in a lot of ways.  There's nothing wrong,  for example, if you live in an area that has tornadoes,  there's nothing wrong with being prepared for that, with feeling like,  there are things that we can control in this situation.  If a tornado were to come about, then we

 

04:21

make sure that we have access to a basement where we can go.  Or maybe we have tornado insurance that  can compensate us if there are any damages to where we live or something like that. And so it's fine to, I'm not advocating for us to completely let go, but I think it is important to let go of things that we can't control.  But part of that is determining what are the things that I can control.

 

04:51

and what are the things that I can't control? Because a lot of times we spend a lot of  time and energy focusing  on things that we can't really control and it just kind of destroys our mental health and destroys relationships if we become overly focused on this. Politics is a good example of this where  people become extremely  overwhelmed.

 

05:19

and  emotionally dysregulated by what's going on in the world of politics, let's say, if there's been an election or something like that,  or there are policies happening. It makes sense. There's good reason why people are overwhelmed by these things.  The policies affect people's lives in a significant way.  as a human being, when we're experiencing a threat,  it's normal to have emotions.

 

05:48

in response to the threat. Right? the emotions help  move us, put us into motion, into creating safety and security. Right? So historically, when our ancestors, tens of thousands of years ago, were  faced with, let's  say there was a tornado tens of thousands of years ago, that would create an emotion of fear and anxiety.

 

06:18

people would rush to create safety for themselves in that situation, right? Like by finding a cave or by  doing other things to protect their family and prepare for the storm that was to come. But what happens is, let's say  that that tornado happened tens of thousands of years ago, let's say that same person,  for the next 10 years, they were worried and stressed about a tornado coming and they lived every day.

 

06:47

in every day and there was no tornado, but every day they just were completely stressed about the fact that tornadoes are a thing that could happen. They are very dangerous and I'm going to do everything in my life to protect myself from a tornado happening, but then a tornado doesn't happen for the next 10 years. So I think in the present day, modern human beings often do that in their life. And again,  the political  realm is a good example where

 

07:16

Now it's not just this immediate threat that I'm facing. It's something that involves millions of people, something that involves things that, again, things I can control and things I can't control. I think part of it is determining that, right? Like when we're talking about politics, there are things that I can control about that situation. If I have fear and anxiety about something happening in the political world, I can vote.

 

07:46

I can make donations, I can go to a rally, I can advocate with friends, I can have discussions with friends and family about my beliefs and try to convince people of my perspective. There are all kinds of things that I can control that I could put energy into that I can try to do to affect change. But at the end of the day, let's say the...

 

08:13

person who I didn't want to get elected gets elected, then I have to let go of what I can't control. I don't want to go for the next several years sort of living in a state of depression and anxiety about things that I can't control. Now, if that anxiety is leading me to take action in a healthy, meaningful way, then of course  I can choose to do that. Let's bring it back to relationships, right?

 

08:43

When I am making a commitment to be with someone, to be with a partner, there is  a letting go  of certain things, things that I wish I could control that I probably can't. We have to respect the autonomy  of this other human being.  And that's part of what it means to be in a loving, caring relationship.  You've probably heard

 

09:11

seen this on a movie or something before, this romantic sentiment, right? Like when two people who are married, let's say, or in a relationship,  and one of the partners says something like, well, I just want you to be happy. Right? And it's sort of a selfless sort of realization that I can't control how this other person feels about me. I think, actually, I remember one example was  the movie Sleepless in Seattle.

 

09:42

I forget the actor's  name, but Meg Ryan is dating this guy. The one thing I remember about the character is that he was like sick all the time. He was always like blowing his nose or he's allergic to everything or something like that. And he was a really nice guy. And she was dating this guy when she met Tom Hanks, who, you know, spoiler alert.

 

10:10

the two of them end up falling in love. But this character that she was dating was, like I said, a really nice guy. And at one point he realized that she didn't really love him anymore. They were good friends and they got along, but she wasn't really interested. was becoming obvious that she wasn't really interested in being in a relationship with him anymore. And he said something to her, you know, which was was clear that he wanted

 

10:40

the relationship to work, that he loved her, that he really wanted to be with her.  But it was clear that she didn't, and he said something that sort of let her know  that he realized this and that he just wanted her to be happy and he wanted her to be free to  go live her life if  she didn't want to be with him, then he was willing to accept that. It was a really beautiful scene and a really beautiful act  of

 

11:08

generosity,  I would say, that I think all of us can try to strive for. So that's one aspect  of being in a relationship. And this is why I think that a certain level of commitment is important. mean, marriage is one form of commitment.  There are other forms. It doesn't mean that you have to get married. But when you are in a relationship with someone, establishing that

 

11:37

commitment or you could call it an agreement, right? Like, let's say that  someone's been dating another person for a few months  and they tell each other, let's make an agreement that we are, well, this would probably happen earlier than a few, but whatever. It's early on in their relationship. They make an agreement that we're not going to date other people. We're not going to talk  to other people about being their partner.

 

12:07

And we're making a commitment to each other that this is like an exclusive monogamous relationship that we have. That's an important agreement to make because there's no way I can ever control what that other person is thinking or feeling  or  the decisions or the behavior that they decide to  enact in the world. But I think that in a relationship we have to trust what

 

12:36

the person is telling us in the agreements that we make with each other. And I'll get into this a little bit more because obviously there are times when people break those agreements and it's very devastating, right? It lets me know that there are things that I thought I could trust. I thought I had control over and it seems that this is no longer the case.

 

13:06

And you know, I've talked about this a lot before, in this conversation, I'm talking about it from the standpoint of control. That when you are with another person, you can't control. What they decide to do with their life. mean, mean apart,  I'll use an extreme example in this. Maybe this is silly, but apart from like tying them up. Right, which is obviously a horrific.

 

13:35

abusive, terrible thing to do to someone else. Like you can't really control what that other person does. And I see it  in couples therapy often. see it in with the couples I work with where  one partner,  sometimes people have a little bit more tendency toward wanting to be controlling. Right. And I see this sometimes where like they begin

 

14:06

to  try to enact this  control over their partner,  whether it's about what they're doing with their time  or  who they're talking to or who they're getting together with  or  how the partner is treating them.  Is my partner doing the things I think they should be for me  in their relationship?

 

14:37

Some people might be thinking to themselves,  what  is the line between our commitment to being in a relationship and doing those things for each other  and something that could be perceived as a controlling expectation of the other person? Like, let's take, you know, if somebody's in  a heterosexual relationship, I've heard this  standard that people say where, you know,

 

15:05

The expectation is that my partner wouldn't like go out  with somebody of the opposite sex. Right. So  if my partner is a woman  and  she is, you know, primarily heterosexual, she's interested in men, she's dating me as a man, that she wouldn't like go out to lunch with other men.

 

15:33

Right? Like, this is something I've heard couples say is an expectation in their relationship. Now, I'm not one to tell people  what agreements they should have or not. But what I will say is that it's important to  vocalize or verbalize these things so that it becomes an agreement. Right? Because I think there are a lot of other... Well, I know there are a lot of other people in the world who,  you know...

 

16:01

I'll use myself as an example. Like if my wife wants to have friends who are male and she wants to go out to lunch with them, I don't really care. Like that's her business. That's what she can choose to do with her time  or choose to, you know, the people she wants to choose to have relationships with. Now that's because probably  I'm okay with that because we have really clear agreements, you know, about our relationship that I feel confident that she would follow through on.

 

16:30

I think it would be very controlling of me to start telling my partner who she can talk to when she can talk to them, blah, blah, blah. Now, let's say that, you know, I don't want to be a controlling partner. Let's say like one way we could set up the agreement is that if you go out to lunch with a friend who's a male, that you would let me know, right? You would let me know ahead of time that this was happening.

 

17:00

and I could feel like some level of reassurance. But I don't want to approach this conversation from the standpoint that it's right or wrong, right? Because that starts feeling controlling. If I were to say like, well, what's wrong with you that you went out to lunch and you didn't even say anything to me, right? If you don't have an agreement, then the other person might have a very different understanding  or expectation or meaning.

 

17:28

that they're making about what's happening in the situation, whether it's right or wrong. And  I've talked about this a lot on other episodes, but I think it's always worthwhile to go over  that  the way I would want to approach it is that this is something that's hard for me.  And I think there are aspects

 

17:55

of being controlling that go hand in hand with the right and wrong thinking, the black and white thinking, like there are right ways of being in a relationship. If my partner isn't following through on the right way of being in a relationship, then I have the right to be controlling and tell them what they're doing is wrong.

 

18:15

You know, like, let's take a  different example, feels less intense in my mind, that, you know,  in a relation, if I'm making up rules about the right way of being in a relationship, right, one rule that I might have in my mind is that, you know, let's say we both work Monday through Friday and we have the weekends off.

 

18:43

I might have a rule in my mind that on the weekends when we both have time off from work, we are supposed to spend  all of our time together.

 

18:57

If I have that belief, the unchecked belief, and I just think that's the right way of being in a relationship, then I might start to be controlling about what's happening. If my partner says, hey, I'm going to go spend the day with my friend and go do something else apart from you,  I might begin to  have some controlling energy that comes into the situation that tries to convince her that  what you're doing is wrong.

 

19:27

or something like that. Now, a healthy way of approaching that would be to share with my partner, here's how this feels for me, here's what I want, here's what would be my ideal situation.  But I also have to  accept what I can't control. I have to accept the fact that my partner might want to spend time with friends apart from me,  or they might just want to go do something on their own. My partner might have a very different

 

19:56

view of reality that they think, you know, it's the weekend and this is when I can get alone time. And I don't want to spend every waking moment together because one of the things about my personality is that I like spending time by myself. Right. So it's really important.  It leads to a lot of acceptance and understanding. If we can look at it, not from the standpoint of black and white, but from the standpoint of my partner as a human being.

 

20:26

who I can't control, I certainly can't control, who has a set of beliefs, who has a set of needs and wants, who has their own perspective about the world.  And the more I try to understand that and appreciate that, the better. And I can share with them my perspective and my beliefs and my needs and wants in the world. But at the end of the day, I want to try as much as I can to try to avoid

 

20:54

being controlling about that, right? And part of that is moving into a lot of acceptance and really compassion and love for  what my partner needs and wants. And this is something to be mindful of really early on in a relationship. If you think about the early phases of a relationship, like we start dating the first couple months, a lot of times this is...

 

21:19

These are reasons why people end up not staying together and that's okay, right? It's like finding out that we are not a good match, right? Like again, it could be something as simple as like if  the weekend comes around and  I'm somebody who just wants to spend the whole weekend with my partner and do  fun stuff together, there's nothing wrong with that.

 

21:45

And but my partner is somebody who has a lot of hobbies and wants to go do their own thing or spend time with other friends or without me or whatever. There's nothing wrong with that either. But it's sort of like the ability to communicate what we really want becomes really important  and the ability to make agreements about like, are we spending our time? How  are we trying to be understanding with each other?

 

22:13

You know, how are we working through that communication when we want something different? You know, that becomes very important. And again, I just want to emphasize in this podcast episode, I'm really focusing on the control. You don't want to become someone who brings that controlling energy into the conversation because that's going to lead to, you  know, I'll use this word. I know I hesitate to use this word sometimes.

 

22:41

that's going to lead to toxic feelings or energy coming into the relationship. And I use that in a way to be, you know, maybe I could use dysfunctional, but it's going to lead to  negative consequences in the relationship. Like, let's say that I'll just stick with this example. Let's say every time my partner goes to use this example where I want to spend the whole weekend together, my partner wants to, let's say they want to go for a bike ride by themselves.

 

23:10

for four hours. So every time they go on a bike ride for four hours by themselves, they come back and I'm kind of  grumpy and I'm upset  and  you know, I'm you know,  feel like I'm not a priority because they're not they're choosing to to go on a bike ride instead of spending time with me. This is a passive way

 

23:39

of controlling the situation, right?  Like I'm entitled to my feelings.  Every one of you as human beings is entitled to your feelings. But there's a way in which this can play out that can feel manipulative, right? And manipulation is a passive form of control, right? So this is just one example.  There is a lot more overt manipulation, but this is

 

24:08

a passive way of manipulating the situation. So my partner comes back from their bike ride and I'm just putting off this energy that's just like disappointed and heard and whiny and whatever. If I'm feeling these feelings, the healthy way of dealing with it would be to say something like, hey, I'm glad you  went on a bike ride. I'm just having some feelings right now. I know this is my own stuff.

 

24:38

because I'm feeling lonely, I'm feeling like I'm not a priority. I'm making up in my head that you don't care,  that you care about riding your bike more than you care about me. But I'm working really hard to deal with those emotions myself and I hope we can have a good rest of the day.  I'm allowed to have those feelings and I'm allowed to express them in a respectful way.

 

25:06

But I don't want to make my partner responsible for that. I don't want to make them feel like, and this would be like a codependent energy, like you need to  change your behavior in order for me to feel okay. Like I can make requests, like making requests is a really good alternative to being controlling. You know, where I could say like, hey, I would really love it  if, you know, let's say every Saturday, my partner wants to ride their bike for four hours.

 

25:36

I could say, look, I really want you to go ride your bike for four hours and enjoy it and have freedom and love doing that. But I would, I would really like to make a request that we can do something  together for at least a couple hours every weekend as well. Right? So it's trying to come up with compromises where you can have your alone time. And this is my request of what I want. That's very different than being controlling and saying,

 

26:06

Again, don't, I mean, I hope there aren't a lot of like super overtly controlling people in the world anymore, but sadly, I think there probably are, you know, where it's mean-spirited, it's telling the person that they can't go ride a bike. It's like, you know, if you're on the receiving end of that, by the way, uh, again, it's really important to question your, own relation. I mean,

 

26:35

You should probably be seeking professional help. If you're on the receiving end of a super controlling relationship, part of what I would say is that that person doesn't actually have control over you. I  would really encourage people who feel like you're in that situation to seek  support, whether it's from a professional like a therapist or seek support from family and friends and really

 

27:03

Make sure that you understand  that this other person can't control you.  You are an individual human being who can make decisions for yourself. And if this is an unhealthy situation for you, then try to seek out support  and try to communicate from a place of empowerment that you deserve to have boundaries. You deserve to have needs and wants. You should definitely...

 

27:30

have the right to say no to things you don't want to do,  all of those types of things. So that's important to express. Building a private practice can be challenging. Filing all of the right paperwork is time consuming and tedious. And even after you're done, it can take months to get credentialed and start seeing clients. That's why Alma makes it easy and financially rewarding to accept insurance. When you join Alma, you can get credentialed within 45 days.

 

27:59

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28:27

visit helloalma.com backslash A-T-P-P or click the link in the show notes to learn more. You know, I'm talking more about the more subtle ways that I think that control comes into  a lot of different relationships. I do, you know, I talk about codependence a lot. think a lot of this is codependent, right? Like any form of control is a form of codependence, right? Where I'm trying to...

 

28:56

get the other person to do something in order for me to feel okay about myself. I'm trying to control the situation, right? And especially if I'm not conscious of that, again, like, let's say that I really, really want my partner,  I really want them to go,  you know, do the same activities as me.  Let's  say go work out, right? I really want them to go work out with me three times a week.  And  they don't want to at all.  They have other...

 

29:24

things that they want to do, and it's just not something they want to do at all. These can become things that people continue to talk about in their relationship and try to work through.  But if both people have a very different opinion about things,  we can't go to that place of the...  I'm  using the term controlling energy, because control isn't even real. This isn't poor, right? I can't...

 

29:52

tell my partner,  have to go work out with me.  If I do,  this is an incredibly unhealthy relationship. That is not being relational  at all. But I can say, this is really important to me. I would love it if you would go work out. And my partner can say, it's really important to me that I don't go work out with you. And these become things.

 

30:21

that couples have to work through together.  And  you can make your case, but you want to make sure that you're doing it in a really loving, humble, compassionate way. There are reasons why my partner feels the way they do and has the perspective that they do. And I want to work really hard at moving into compassion and understanding  for where they're coming from instead of continuing to try to change

 

30:50

the environment in order for me to feel comfortable. This comes up with, you know,  I wanted to mention in this podcast episode as well, I wanted to mention kids too, because  I think there are a lot of parents who are way too controlling of their children.  And, you know, if I'm honest, if I'm conscious, I think I bring that energy into my relationship with my kids as a parent, sometimes too much. So it's not about

 

31:20

Intention, I mean, there could be parents with the best of intentions that are still doing this.  And this is moving into consciousness, right? Like, let's say my kids are,  you know, let's say they get negative comments on their report card from their teacher. There's a feeling reality that comes up in my nervous system. That's like, I need to discipline my children to make them behave better in school or something like that. Right. And

 

31:49

How do I notice that and become conscious of that and make sure that the way I'm showing up as a parent is in alignment with my own values and beliefs about what a good parent looks like? That's really important because a lot of parents aren't conscious. Let's take physical abuse, for example.  That parent  is  acting in a way that they're just sort of responding impulsively.

 

32:19

to  whatever feelings are coming up in their nervous system that are,  where they're like actually have so little boundaries that they're willing to be physical with a child, which is the, one of the worst things you could possibly do as a human being.  And there are still parents in the world who  do that. And so those are parents who have no consciousness or very little consciousness over what's going on in the situation.

 

32:48

They simply experience something they perceive as their child doing wrong. They have a nervous system response that comes up and they become physically abusive toward their child.  So this is a way of controlling the behavior of their child in order for them to feel more comfortable in the situation.  And this goes back to things I've talked about with shame.

 

33:15

You know, where that parent feels so ashamed that their child isn't doing better in school or whatever the example. They feel ashamed about themselves. What's wrong with me as a parent that I'm not getting my child to do better in school? I need to  modify their behavior by being physically abusive so that I feel better about myself as a parent. It's ridiculous. When you really think about it. It's coming from that place of shame.

 

33:45

for them. But what happens is that the child begins to learn that as long as I give in  to my parents controlling behaviors, maybe I will be abused less. Right.  Or, you know, something that would be more like manipulation with a child. You know, every every time that I do well in a sports game, my parents give me a lot of love and appreciation.

 

34:15

for who I am. Again, as parents, we can give our kids a lot of positive regard when they do good things in the world and they should be proud of themselves and we're proud of them and that's all great. But there's a fine line. If I'm not giving my kids any positive regard day in and day out and then all of a sudden they score a goal or something,

 

34:42

and now I'm showering on this positive stuff. And then  the next game, they don't score a goal and they come home and I'm kind of cold toward them.  That's  an emotional manipulation. That's  a form of control that's more covert or hidden.  As a parent, I'm trying to control the situation by how I'm  reacting to my child based on what  they're doing.

 

35:12

So that's a really important thing to be conscious of and to be mindful of, right? Like, I think in a really healthy situation...

 

35:24

I want to make my child's behavior, the consequences of their behavior are more  natural, like in alignment with the universe, let's say.  If you are kind to others, others are kind to you, for example. Let's say that there is an expectation that they're kind to others. Let's say I'm trying to teach them

 

35:54

to be kind and have good boundaries with others. Part of that expectation  or to be a respectful citizen in the world, it's important that you clean up after yourself in a common space, right? Like let's say the kids like 12 years old, they're ready to learn. Like when you are sharing a house with other people, it might be perceived as inconsiderate if you're leaving your stuff everywhere in the house and you're making a mess and you're not cleaning up after yourself. In order to be respectful,

 

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citizen in the world. you know, in order to teach them how to be a good roommate with other people or how to be a good partner if they ever live with  someone they're dating or something like that. In order to teach them how to be a good citizen in the world, it's important for  in my from my perspective, maybe this is my own personal viewpoint or my own judgment, but it's important for me to teach my kids how to be respectful housemates. So and part of that is like cleaning up, cleaning your room, cleaning up after yourself.

 

36:53

Right. And so I want to make the consequence for those things like a natural consequence. Right. Like  again, let's say it's a weekend. It's like a Saturday that you are not allowed to go  do the fun things that you want to do in the world until your room is clean.  Or if you fail to do the dishes like, like let's say you make a huge mess in the kitchen and you fail to clean up after yourself.

 

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and then you sort of get on your screen and forget to clean up, then you will lose your screen for some period of time as a consequence.  But as a parent, I'm not trying to  be controlling  for my own emotional well-being.  I'm trying to help  teach them that there are natural consequences for the way you behave in the world. And I want my children to have healthy relationships when they grow up.

 

37:52

And I want them to be considerate about the way that they have an impact on other people.  And I want them to have a voice for themselves about things that they  feel heard about or don't feel respected about and whatever else. And so that would be the intention. As a parent, we do way too much where we're  just feeling triggered ourselves.

 

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and we're trying to control their behavior in order for us to feel better as opposed to making parenting decisions in a conscious way to help them  in their life. Like that's our job as parents to give them guidance and support so that they can be happy, healthy, successful people in the world fulfilled. Right. But like our kids are going to be who they're going to be. Like I think parents

 

38:50

spend way too much energy trying to get their kids to be something in order for the parent to feel better. And that might be a whole other episode, but we have to let go of what we can't control with our kids. mean, if any of you who are parents know this is true,  there's a huge amount of letting go.  There are hundreds of things that I  would have preferred that my kids do that they didn't, that I have to accept as just part of who they are that's different from me.

 

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And it's not my job to make them into what  I want them to be. It's my job to support them into becoming who they are, right? To stepping into their authentic self and  giving them guidance to do that. But,  you know, a big part of parenting is letting go of what we can't control when it comes to our kids. So  that's what this is all about. And just a reminder, in a...

 

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in a relationship with your partner,

 

39:53

In order to not be controlling it, it also requires that level of consciousness. When I'm getting triggered and overwhelmed, am I somebody who's going into a controlling place in the conversation? I want to become more conscious of that. I want to be more aware of that. And instead of being controlling, how do I share my feelings? How do I share what I want, make requests  about what I want? And how do I learn

 

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how to listen to my partner's perspective about what they want, which might be different from mine. And if you can learn how to be really considerate and respectful and accepting of each other, I mean, that's gonna go a long ways toward dealing with any control issues in a relationship. But be open, right? If you're listening to this, be open to the fact that there are probably ways that you are bringing yourself into your relationship in a controlling way, and it's worth taking a look at.

 

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I hope this was helpful for everybody. Thank you so much  for tuning in and I will see you next time.

 

41:17

Thank you again, everybody. This is Shane Birkel and this is The Couples Therapist Couch podcast. It's all about the practice of couples therapy. I hope you have a great week and we'll see you next time.  Bye, everybody!